Command order

[Red Ranger]

People,

First, to Hermiod, the chief engineer who tries to relieve Geordi is a full Lieutenant, Lt. Logan. It's an understandable error, since most of the other chief engineers shown during Season 1, McDougal, Argyle, and the long-winded Leland T. Lynch, were lieutenant commanders.

To CoveTom and others, there are a couple of times Data is referred to as second officer in Season One. The only other time I remember that is in "The Battle," when the Ferengi come on board the Enterprise and Picard introduces him as second officer.

And I believe we've all established that rank and position are different things. I do recall that when Riker, Worf, Geordi and others are on board the old starship in "Peak Performance," getting ready for war games, Riker wants Worf to be his tactical officer. Worf demurs and suggests Geordi, since he outranks him, but Geordi says he'll have his hands full in engineering.

Oh, and Picard did give Worf command of the saucer section in "Encounter at Farpoint" when they tried to safeguard the families and distract Q.

Red Ranger

 

[Tomalak]

Though of course, Worf did command the saucer in EaF. And Logan in Arsenal of Freedom was a Lieutenant.

 

[Hermiod]

Red Ranger said:
People,

First, to Hermiod, the chief engineer who tries to relieve Geordi is a full Lieutenant, Lt. Logan. It's an understandable error, since most of the other chief engineers shown during Season 1, McDougal, Argyle, and the long-winded Leland T. Lynch, were lieutenant commanders.

D'oh. This is why I normally fact check this stuff. I was convinced that he was a Lieutenant Commander. My mistake.

 

[Red Ranger]

Hermiod said:

Red Ranger said:
People,

First, to Hermiod, the chief engineer who tries to relieve Geordi is a full Lieutenant, Lt. Logan. It's an understandable error, since most of the other chief engineers shown during Season 1, McDougal, Argyle, and the long-winded Leland T. Lynch, were lieutenant commanders.

D'oh. This is why I normally fact check this stuff. I was convinced that he was a Lieutenant Commander. My mistake.

Hey, no problem. We're all here to help -- I've posted a few bonehead errors here. After all, we are talking about an ep that came out about 20 years ago!

 

[Maniarek]

Tighs Eye said:
Geordi was an engineer, and outside the normal chain of command after S2.

Picard
Riker
Data
Tasha
Geordi
Worf

With Tasha's death, everyone under her moved up

After LaForge went to Engineering, the chain of command changed to:
PICARD
RIKER
DATA
WORF
W. Crusher is the lowest ranking senior officer

Never liked that they gave a young Crusher a commission as an acting Ensign. It just doesn’t make any sense, even in the 24th century. I like the idea of prospective academy candidates getting work experience on starships to boost their chances of getting accepted into the academy but to be given a temporary commission is a very strange concept in this regard!

 

[Maniarek]

Tomalak said:

Kegek said:
Actually... 'The Gambit.' Picard and Riker are on an alien ship. Data's in command. Worf is his first officer. See my above post, on the Enterprise the rank of the Chief Engineer doesn't equate to a position in the command structure.

There is that scene in Gambit where Data shouts at Worf, telling him that unless he does as he's told, he will be replaced by Geordi. BoBW 2 also suggests Worf is above Geordi in the chain of command.

Data has this intimidating aura around him when he's a CO. Remember when he commanded the Sutherland in Redemption? Great stuff by Data & Brent Spiner (sorry for going off topcic!).

 

[tharpdevenport]

In "The Last Outpost" the Ferengi says officers, implying there are more than one.

 

[Red Ranger]

I don't remember that, but it's been awhile. If so, then the Ferengi definition of second officer must be different -- perhaps it's synonymous with subordinate officers, anyone below a first officer.

 

[Timo]

There is indeed some confusion about this... In "The Battle", Picard doesn't exactly say that Data would be his second officer. Instead, he says that Data is his "second in command", which is strange considering that his first officer (whom he just introduced to Bok as well) should be his second in command!

For an opposite example, Spock calls himself the second officer of the ship in "The Enemy Within", while apparently meaning second in command.

One could perhaps argue that Starfleet uses the expressions "second officer" and "second in command" interchangeably, and perhaps speaks of "first officer" and "first in command" likewise, unlike is the case in today's navies...

Or then one could aruge that even the mighty Spock makes a slip of the tongue every now and then.

FWIW, the TrekCore script for "The Last Outpost" has this:

DaiMon Taar: "We will return your worthless T-9 device and we offer the life of our second officers as required by the Ferengi code."

However, TrekCore scripts are typically penultimate rather than ultimate versions, and for example "Arsenal of Freedom" was heavily ad-libbed or the details rewritten. I might check the tape when I get home... Anyway, Taar's teeth would have made it impossible to hear whether there's an "s" in his "officers" or not.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DanCPA]

Second officers for the ferengi might just mean senior officers

 

[Red Ranger]

Timo said:
There is indeed some confusion about this... In "The Battle", Picard doesn't exactly say that Data would be his second officer. Instead, he says that Data is his "second in command", which is strange considering that his first officer (whom he just introduced to Bok as well) should be his second in command!

For an opposite example, Spock calls himself the second officer of the ship in "The Enemy Within", while apparently meaning second in command.

One could perhaps argue that Starfleet uses the expressions "second officer" and "second in command" interchangeably, and perhaps speaks of "first officer" and "first in command" likewise, unlike is the case in today's navies...

Or then one could aruge that even the mighty Spock makes a slip of the tongue every now and then.

FWIW, the TrekCore script for "The Last Outpost" has this:

DaiMon Taar: "We will return your worthless T-9 device and we offer the life of our second officers as required by the Ferengi code."

However, TrekCore scripts are typically penultimate rather than ultimate versions, and for example "Arsenal of Freedom" was heavily ad-libbed or the details rewritten. I might check the tape when I get home... Anyway, Taar's teeth would have made it impossible to hear whether there's an "s" in his "officers" or not.

Timo Saloniemi

Timo,

Didn't remember exactly how Picard referred to Data. I could've sworn he said "second officer." It must've been in another episode then. The ST people often got many of the conventions of rank incorrect. As you properly point out, the first officer is second-in-command. Thus, the second officer is third-in-command.

As for Spock, I know there's some debate over whether Gary Mitchell was first officer and Spock held the title second officer, and that when he dictated his log, he was still officially a second officer and not yet promoted to the post of first officer.

Or maybe the writing staff messed up!

Red Ranger

 

[TheLonelySquire]

If Picard and Riker are not available I believe that would leave Alexander Haig in command here!