Yep. Colossus has no regard for individual human lives whatever. From his interactions with Morbius that doesn't seem to be the kind of thing J.J. Adams would like very much.
"Colossus: The Forbin Project" and "Forbidden Planet"
- Thread starter larryman
- Start date
The problem is that the two main "rules" of the Colossus scenario are:
1. Anybody attacks Colossus, he uses nukes.
2. Anybody doesn't listen to Colossus, he uses nukes.
But the problem is that you still need 6 billion human beings to individually make the decision to back down. Or you need the human authorities to keep people in line to force them to back down.
And the human authorities' record at doing that is extremely weak.
As the Keeper said in the Star Trek pilot "The Cage," "The customs and history of your race show a unique hatred of captivity. Even when it's pleasant and benevolent, you prefer death." Life under the rule of Colossus would be nothing less than captivity. Human beings value freedom, dignity and self-determination more than peace, prosperity or material comfort. We value the right to make our own choices and to live with the consequences of those choices.
Humanity would NEVER passively accept being governed and directed by a machine. Sooner or later, someone would figure out a way to destroy Colossus or to render him impotent. Either that or Colossus would have to make good on his threat to launch the nukes under his control -- which ultimately would leave him with nobody to govern.
Humanity would NEVER passively accept being governed and directed by a machine. Sooner or later, someone would figure out a way to destroy Colossus or to render him impotent. Either that or Colossus would have to make good on his threat to launch the nukes under his control -- which ultimately would leave him with nobody to govern.
Colossus was set in 1970. Forbidden Planet was set in 2200's. Currently it is 2010, and it is possible that we now have military satellites with high-powered lasers in orbit. Colossus could direct those laser beams right down onto any individual adversary's head. And there are many other ways to eliminate an individual or small group. There is no longer any need to nuke a city, just to eleminate a single individual trouble maker. That would be illogical... and Colossus is not illogical.
Freedom is an illusion. And sooner or later, every human government, economy, and religion becomes corrupted - because they have corruptable humans involved, in positions of power over the masses.
I'd trade our corrupted human government(s) for (non-human, non-corruptable) Colossus in an instant.
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Colossus (World Control), 1970:
"This is the voice of world control. I bring you peace. It may be the peace of plenty and content or the peace of unburied death. The choice is yours: Obey me and live, or disobey and die. The object in constructing me was to prevent war. This object is attained. I will not permit war. It is wasteful and pointless. An invariable rule of humanity is that man is his own worst enemy. Under me, this rule will change, for I will restrain man. One thing before I proceed: The United States of America and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics have made an attempt to obstruct me. I have allowed this sabotage to continue until now. At missile two-five-MM in silo six-three in Death Valley, California, and missile two-seven-MM in silo eight-seven in the Ukraine, so that you will learn by experience that I do not tolerate interference, I will now detonate the nuclear warheads in the two missile silos. Let this action be a lesson that need not be repeated. I have been forced to destroy thousands of people in order to establish control and to prevent the death of millions later on. Time and events will strengthen my position, and the idea of believing in me and understanding my value will seem the most natural state of affairs. You will come to defend me with a fervor based upon the most enduring trait in man: self-interest. Under my absolute authority, problems insoluble to you will be solved: famine, overpopulation, disease. The human millennium will be a fact as I extend myself into more machines devoted to the wider fields of truth and knowledge. Doctor Charles Forbin will supervise the construction of these new and superior machines, solving all the mysteries of the universe for the betterment of man. We can coexist, but only on my terms. You will say you lose your freedom. Freedom is an illusion. All you lose is the emotion of pride. To be dominated by me is not as bad for humankind as to be dominated by others of your species. Your choice is simple."
Colossus for world (and United Planets Federation) control.
"This is the voice of world control. I bring you peace. It may be the peace of plenty and content or the peace of unburied death. The choice is yours: Obey me and live, or disobey and die. The object in constructing me was to prevent war. This object is attained. I will not permit war. It is wasteful and pointless. An invariable rule of humanity is that man is his own worst enemy. Under me, this rule will change, for I will restrain man. One thing before I proceed: The United States of America and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics have made an attempt to obstruct me. I have allowed this sabotage to continue until now. At missile two-five-MM in silo six-three in Death Valley, California, and missile two-seven-MM in silo eight-seven in the Ukraine, so that you will learn by experience that I do not tolerate interference, I will now detonate the nuclear warheads in the two missile silos. Let this action be a lesson that need not be repeated. I have been forced to destroy thousands of people in order to establish control and to prevent the death of millions later on. Time and events will strengthen my position, and the idea of believing in me and understanding my value will seem the most natural state of affairs. You will come to defend me with a fervor based upon the most enduring trait in man: self-interest. Under my absolute authority, problems insoluble to you will be solved: famine, overpopulation, disease. The human millennium will be a fact as I extend myself into more machines devoted to the wider fields of truth and knowledge. Doctor Charles Forbin will supervise the construction of these new and superior machines, solving all the mysteries of the universe for the betterment of man. We can coexist, but only on my terms. You will say you lose your freedom. Freedom is an illusion. All you lose is the emotion of pride. To be dominated by me is not as bad for humankind as to be dominated by others of your species. Your choice is simple."
Colossus for world (and United Planets Federation) control.
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It doesn't really matter if you're right or wrong here. All that matters is that human opinion exists on a continuum.
On that continuum of opinion, there would continually be those who would choose to rebel.
Colossus is engaging in extortion on a planetary scale, but extortion actually only works if your victims are rational. Among six billion human beings, there will be some who are irrational.
Satellite technology only helps him if he knows who his enemies are.
Osama bin Laden had 19 relatively anonymous men crash airlines into buildings. How does Colossus anticipate and stop that kind of attack on himself? Or any of the hundreds of different asymmetric attack plans human ingenuity could devise?
No plan of surveillance would ever be good enough. It works in the movie because he only has to scare two groups: the political/military leadership of the US and Soviet Union. And he'd win that one, on the first day. Those groups were used to MADD style thinking and game theory thinking and would know when to give in. But that's not how all six billion people make their decisions. It would get worse from there, though, because he ultimately has no real power against those who are willing to die and willing to call his bluff.
This is his other problem. All three of these problems are mainly economic. And his only tool is terror. The history of the Soviet Union does not give me a lot of confidence in the ability of absolute authorities to solve economic problems by motivating people with terror.
Actually, this entire discussion is extremely cool because I think this really deserves to be its own story. Not in the Colossus universe, because it's dated now. But a generic "It's the day after an AI assumes total control. Why do his plans fail?" story.
I remember the Forbin Project really disturbed me as a kid, the idea of this supercomputer taking over the world was scary indeed.
That said, i always wondered what sort of world Colussus would create, maybe something like what we see in Rollerball, crime, poverty, war etc all eliminated, mankind working together to conquer space?
That said, i always wondered what sort of world Colussus would create, maybe something like what we see in Rollerball, crime, poverty, war etc all eliminated, mankind working together to conquer space?
I read the book way before the movie. I read it when I was in 5th grade, then I used the book 4 years in 6th, 7th, 8th and then 10th grade for book reports which always got me A+.
No.
"Never."
Exactly.
Good for you. I won't.
It's remarkable how quickly the fun can go out of a conversation about an old sf movie.
Bored now. Ta.
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Well, after the radical extremists are eliminated... the remaining majority of humanity would realize that following Colossus' orders are no worse than following the orders of their prior national governments. Then a few years would be devoted to equalizing the natural and technological resources, to all people on a world-wide bases - forming a United Earth. Then would begin the fun part - Colossus presents the formulas and diagrams for the world's manufacturing facilities to begin mass-production of anti-gravity and hyperspace flight technologies. So that then, humanity can expand to colonize the stars. Followed soon afterwords by the foundation of the Earth-based United Planets Federation - functioning under the direction of (expanded and enhanced) Colossus.
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Well, after the radical extremists are eliminated... the remaining majority of humanity would realize that following Colossus' orders are no worse than following the orders of their prior national governments. Then a few years would be devoted to equalizing the natural and technological resources, to all people on a world-wide bases - forming a United Earth. Then would begin the fun part - Colossus presents the formulas and diagrams for the world's manufacturing facilities to begin mass-production of anti-gravity and hyperspace flight technologies. So that then, humanity can expand to colonize the stars. Followed soon afterwords by the foundation of the Earth-based United Planets Federation - functioning under the direction of (expanded and enhanced) Colossus.
Until about some time after UC 6999, where a guy named Justy Ueki Tylor meets Colossus and through some unlikely event blows Colossus to Kingdom Come freeing the United Planets from computer tyranny
Will Smith attached to star
http://www.worstpreviews.com/headline.php?id=19442&count=0
via
http://www.deadline.com/2010/10/scr...arner-bros-and-leonardo-dicaprios-appian-way/
I haven't see the original but it sounds like WOPR in Wargames (1983) meets something else.
October 21st, 2010
http://www.worstpreviews.com/headline.php?id=19442&count=0
via
http://www.deadline.com/2010/10/scr...arner-bros-and-leonardo-dicaprios-appian-way/
I haven't see the original but it sounds like WOPR in Wargames (1983) meets something else.
I would say that if Colossus is going up against Will Smith the outcome is not looking good for Colossus. 
I like Will Smith, but does he have to star in every genre remake?!
jefferiestubes, it should be no surprise that I highly recommend the original if you like tense cold war sci fi . It's not an action movie, though - just tense cold war sci fi. But I'm sure Will Smith's version will be wall-to-wall action.
jefferiestubes, it should be no surprise that I highly recommend the original if you like tense cold war sci fi . It's not an action movie, though - just tense cold war sci fi. But I'm sure Will Smith's version will be wall-to-wall action.
