I hated Rogue One though. In fact, the moment I walked out of the theater after RO was the moment I began to dislike the Disneyverse. I had the same experience with Into Darkness as far as my interest in new Trek goes. I think TFA is fun, not great, but that RO is a big mess. I've been tempted to check out Rebels and the recent Thraun novel since I grew up with the Thraun trilogy, but the hollow fanwanky feel of these films and the fact that Rebels will undoubtedly link to a film that I really dislike sours me to it. It's actually made me sympathize a little more with die-hard TOS fans who were annoyed by what B&B did by making Enterprise.
Colin Trevorrow no longer directing Episode IX.
- Thread starter Gepard
- Start date
I hated Rogue One though. In fact, the moment I walked out of the theater after RO was the moment I began to dislike the Disneyverse. I had the same experience with Into Darkness as far as my interest in new Trek goes. I think TFA is fun, not great, but that RO is a big mess. I've been tempted to check out Rebels and the recent Thraun novel since I grew up with the Thraun trilogy, but the hollow fanwanky feel of these films and the fact that Rebels will undoubtedly link to a film that I really dislike sours me to it. It's actually made me sympathize a little more with die-hard TOS fans who were annoyed by what B&B did by making Enterprise.
A downside for me in the way of another Abrams movie is how he sees Star Wars. That is, to him it's all about "practical effects," charming characters, and quirky humor. Add in a few hundred Easter eggs, winks to the audience(Remember STAR WARS?!?)and other nostalgic references, and fittingly capped off with obligatory lens flare and exploding planets. ...and that's Star Wars! No deeper mythology, no challenging storytelling, no effort for a coherent, logical unfolding plot, but more of a plot conveniency. His films kind of make me think of the 4th wall jokes of Last Action Hero, where they poke fun at the common plot holes/tropes of Hollywood action flicks.
Interestingly, it was George Lucas who wanted JJ Abrams directing episode 7. The difference was he had Arndt writing the screenplay, which he had spent a long, long time on. When his version was nixed, Abrams whipped up his own in 2 months. Lucas spent years writing the stories and scripts for the other 2 trilogies.
Oh well. That's life(what's life?) a magazine (how much?) 25..................................
Interestingly, it was George Lucas who wanted JJ Abrams directing episode 7. The difference was he had Arndt writing the screenplay, which he had spent a long, long time on. When his version was nixed, Abrams whipped up his own in 2 months. Lucas spent years writing the stories and scripts for the other 2 trilogies.
Oh well. That's life(what's life?) a magazine (how much?) 25..................................
It will depend on what LFL wants from Ep. 9.
Yup. Also: no character consistency. We spend 20 minutes learning that Rey's core motivation is to see her parents again and that she believes she must stay put until they come back, and then she spends the rest of the movie choosing things that are the exact opposite of that motivation. Finn used to be a stormtrooper who gained humanity and then spends the last two acts of the movie killing his former co-workers like they're robots. Han and Leia...I don't even know what they want. They change from scene to scene depending on the needs of whatever Abrams' wants to do at the moment. I never got a sense of how they ended up where they were in their lives.
The guy is amazing at casting talent and can direct emotion amazingly well, but otherwise he's a terrible storyteller. He doesn't seem to understand story or character at all.
I agree with all of that, and I will also add that IMO at least some of these issues, if not many or most, are caused by shunting off-screen what should be interesting aspects of the story that deserve to be on-screen. This movie doesn't just begin with a cold open, but rather there's been a great deal of stuff that's happened to those who used to be main characters that we really have no idea about and that we don't really find out by the end either. It's like we don't even know these people anymore. The movie even lampshades in the crawl and in a backhanded way how so much has happened off-screen, by referring to Lor San Tekka, a character who we don't even know and who over the course of the film we learn all but nothing about, as an "old ally," which is something you'd say to imply familiarity regarding.
In other words, the difficult parts of story-telling have been completely dodged and replaced by indistinct suggestions.
Rey spends the first half the movie repeating that she must stay and wait for her past to come find her, before being forced to accept that she must make her own future. That's called a character arc, not an inconsistency.
Finn spends the first half the movie running away from a cause he doesn't believe in, before deciding to fight for one he does believe in. Again, a character arc, not an inconsistency. It's also no coincidence these two events happen within minutes of each other.
As for being thin on details: exactly how much detail did ANH furnish us with before Darth Vader strode down that stark white hallway? Precious few. Two movies and an Ewok party later and we still knew next to nothing about Anakin Skywalker and even less about the Emperor. Luke and Leia's mother wasn't even given a name and only even talked about tangentially, nor was their relation to Owen and Beru even remotely clarified. The reason being is that it's wasn't immediately relevant to the story at hand.
Likewise the backstory of Lor San Tekka doesn't matter. He's an old ally, clearly a believer in the force and has information of Luke's possible whereabouts. That's the beginning middle and end of what we needed to know. Anything more would have been extraneous.
Finn spends the first half the movie running away from a cause he doesn't believe in, before deciding to fight for one he does believe in. Again, a character arc, not an inconsistency. It's also no coincidence these two events happen within minutes of each other.
As for being thin on details: exactly how much detail did ANH furnish us with before Darth Vader strode down that stark white hallway? Precious few. Two movies and an Ewok party later and we still knew next to nothing about Anakin Skywalker and even less about the Emperor. Luke and Leia's mother wasn't even given a name and only even talked about tangentially, nor was their relation to Owen and Beru even remotely clarified. The reason being is that it's wasn't immediately relevant to the story at hand.
Likewise the backstory of Lor San Tekka doesn't matter. He's an old ally, clearly a believer in the force and has information of Luke's possible whereabouts. That's the beginning middle and end of what we needed to know. Anything more would have been extraneous.
To be fair, that is how STAR WARS starts as well. We don't know any of those names in the crawl or why we should care about them. That is one thing the OT was brilliant about: don't over-explain where it isn't necessary to the immediate story being told, and drop in a healthy amount of references to unseen places, people and things that the audience has to infer meaning from. That seed of active imagination that you demand of the audience blossoms into a curiosity about this world and how it all fits together.
I actually appreciate that these characters have had lives since we left them on Endor. They gave us enough information to know the broad strokes and that's really all we need for the story being told.
edit: Basically, what Reverend said^
I actually appreciate that these characters have had lives since we left them on Endor. They gave us enough information to know the broad strokes and that's really all we need for the story being told.
edit: Basically, what Reverend said^
Indeed as anyone that's read Lucas's earlier drafts can attest, this brevity was clearly by design. Early on his scripts were stuffed with over exposition, long winded explanations, endless complicated names and backstories. With each draft he parred it down bit by bit until we're left with just what was needed and the rest he told to us through the imagery. The information was still there, informing what was going one, but he didn't need to spell it out.
I swear I watch different movies than everyone else.
You mistake what you NEED to know with what you WANT to know. You need to know that Rey is an orphan, Finn is a Stormtrooper, Poe is a hotshot pilot, Leia is leading a resistance, Han has fallen back into his old ways, their son has become Kylo Ren, etc. and you know all that. The only place they fell short is giving us some information about what the state of the Republic is. ANH told us just enough to know there is a Senate and that the Evil Emperor is disbanding it to hand out power to his governors.
TFA tells you everything you need to know.
Edit:
Venardhi beat me to it, and explained it better lol
If Episode 7 was the only movie in the franchise right now, it would make as much sense as ANH did when it came out.
Exactly.
There just aren't enough eye-rolls for that.
It's not a mistake, but how I feel about the subject.
It’s true though.
ANH had no back story to explain anything.
Anyone watching EP7 as their first star wars movie would feel the same as anyone watching ANH back in ‘77
Ohhh noooo......I'm afraid it is YOU ..who are mistaken...about a great many things..
Anyone else notice that ANH never actually has the rebels state *why* they're rebelling? We're also never told how the supposedly incredibly powerful Jedi Knights were wiped out by just one wheezy goth samurai.
That's because it's all implicit in the imagery. The Empire is just obviously evil, oppressive, militaristic, dehumanising and the sort of thing one should rebel against just on general principle and Vader in intimidating as all buggery.
That's because it's all implicit in the imagery. The Empire is just obviously evil, oppressive, militaristic, dehumanising and the sort of thing one should rebel against just on general principle and Vader in intimidating as all buggery.