Code of Honor - Racist or Not?

[The Grim Ghost]

Re: Obama's Favourite Episode

There was absolutely nothing racist about it. They were a proud and sophisticated society of dark skinned aliens. Even if they were black humans it wouldn't have been racist. Unless you are going to suggest that modern Africa is somehow racist...wait, that doesn't make sense.

And neither does the notion that there is something racist about this episode.

We've seen plenty of sword/spear wielding societies in Trek made of of white humans. Why is it suddenly racist to show black humans doing the same thing? And how exactly does their clothing somehow make it worse?

Real racism should be fought at every turn, but wasting time on things like this is just foolish and misguided.

The episode just stunk.

 

[JustKate]

Re: Obama's Favourite Episode

They all were fighting for wealth, in fact, they all dressed in fancy, gold trimmed clothing, and were proud to show off their possessions to outworlders much like an avg American likes showing off his/her leaf blower or new car to the neighbor.

But the wealth was attached to the females, RAMA - remember? When Yareena chose the other guy as her "first one," he automatically became the most powerful and Lutan was moved down to "second one." And the reason Lutan wanted Yar is because he assumed that she would have vast possessions as well. (Yet another plot problem with this episode, might I add - the assumption is that this proud and sophisticated people had no idea that other societies did things differently.) So it was never really about possessions since he didn't really possess anything. It was about the power that those possessions bring.

Edit: And lordy yes, did it stink. You are so right, Destro.

 

[RAMA]

Re: Obama's Favourite Episode

They all were fighting for wealth, in fact, they all dressed in fancy, gold trimmed clothing, and were proud to show off their possessions to outworlders much like an avg American likes showing off his/her leaf blower or new car to the neighbor.

But the wealth was attached to the females, RAMA - remember? When Yareena chose the other guy as her "first one," he automatically became the most powerful and Lutan was moved down to "second one." And the reason Lutan wanted Yar is because he assumed that she would have vast possessions as well. (Yet another plot problem with this episode, might I add - the assumption is that this proud and sophisticated people had no idea that other societies did things differently.) So it was never really about possessions since he didn't really possess anything. It was about the power that those possessions bring.

Edit: And lordy yes, did it stink. You are so right, Destro.

Right, the women have the land, but also the wealth, and if Yareena had kept him he would have had this too, he gambled on Yar's "wealth". He didn't need to know exactly what the UFP's customs were, he knew he had a hand to play by kidnapping her, and he simply failed. This is NOT the first time a culture in the galaxy didn't know another's culture exactly, the same is true with the Klingons as we pretty much learned as we went, and many more.

RAMA

 

[JustKate]

Re: Obama's Favourite Episode

^ Well, I can't remember the specific line, but I am virtually certain that there is dialogue where Lutan specifically says he thinks that this spacefaring woman must be wealthy. So he isn't thinking about ransom or anything like that; he has no idea that (1) the likelihood that a Starfleet officer might own property is rather unlikely, and in any case (2) even if there is property, it isn't necessarily carried through the female line. So I think it was a pretty stupid plan, and since Lutan was not supposed to be a stupid man, I have to consider this sloppy plotting.

You don't have to consider it so, of course - this is just my opinion.

 

[Cyke101]

Re: Obama's Favourite Episode

We've seen plenty of sword/spear wielding societies in Trek made of of white humans. Why is it suddenly racist to show black humans doing the same thing? And how exactly does their clothing somehow make it worse?

Probably because for a sword/spear wielding society, they showed no indication of being worthy of first contact in the first place, hence a huge difference in just trying to understand the antagonists.

It's essentially the same deal with Justice. While not declared as racist, everybody was just toned, pretty, and ditzy, a planet of stereotypical blondes. Similarly not worth first contact on a tech or cultural level (completely one-sided effort to connect), and rubbing oil rather than swords and spears, and all around just as bad as this episode.

Of course, the simplest and most sensible answer is...

The episode just stunk.

It could very well be that the episode isn't racist (I think it is), but rather that it's so goddamn horrible that we end up lumping it with the rest of humanity's greatest evils. I could very well agree with someone saying the episode condoned genocide and torture, even though none of that happens, it's just THAT BAD. The Spanish Inquisition, the Bataan Death March, and Code of Honor.

 

[JoeRalat]

Re: Obama's Favourite Episode

Not to get into a political debate but this is not an "Obama's Favourite Episode" I would have an Admin rename it. Like "One Race in trek". I would like an Admin to change it.

Now from a sscientific point of view, it is very unlikely that we will have aliens who look just like us, but with some bumps on there heads. It was cool to see the "Enterprise" series show more non human looking aliens. If you look at bugs,dogs birds...etc you see diversity in the way they look. So its hard for me to see one race on one world. The reason we have different skin colors depends on the location we live. People who live areas that are cold and with show, will have lighter skin and short arms. People in tropical areas have dark skin..etc

 

[The Grim Ghost]

Re: Obama's Favourite Episode

We've seen plenty of sword/spear wielding societies in Trek made of of white humans. Why is it suddenly racist to show black humans doing the same thing? And how exactly does their clothing somehow make it worse?

Probably because for a sword/spear wielding society, they showed no indication of being worthy of first contact in the first place, hence a huge difference in just trying to understand the antagonists.

It's essentially the same deal with Justice. While not declared as racist, everybody was just toned, pretty, and ditzy, a planet of stereotypical blondes. Similarly not worth first contact on a tech or cultural level (completely one-sided effort to connect), and rubbing oil rather than swords and spears, and all around just as bad as this episode.

Of course, the simplest and most sensible answer is...

The episode just stunk.

It could very well be that the episode isn't racist (I think it is), but rather that it's so goddamn horrible that we end up lumping it with the rest of humanity's greatest evils. I could very well agree with someone saying the episode condoned genocide and torture, even though none of that happens, it's just THAT BAD. The Spanish Inquisition, the Bataan Death March, and Code of Honor.

I haven't watched the ep. in the last year, but I don't think it was about them being worthy of a 1st contact. Was it even a 1st contact? On the worthiness angle, it seemed that only their leader was a bit evil. I don't remember anyone else being shown in too bad of a light. Yareena wasn't involved in anything that the Vulcan don't do on a regular basis and they are one of the main UFP worlds!!

That aside though, I think the Feds were only dealing with them because they had access to a very rare vacine that was needed urgently on another planet.

I still feel that calling this episode racist is looking a bit too deeply into a dumb one off story. Trek has a long history of doing "cultural spin offs" as the basis of alien societies. Rome, the old West, Irish, etc.. Many of them were portrayed as evil, stupid or misguided. I don't see why doing the same thing with African culture is any better or worse.

BTW, am I the only one that has noticed that the Irish are one of the few groups of people left where it is considered okay to stereotype and bash them for laughs? Just in the last year or so the Simpsons and Family guy have done it. Stand up comedians constantly do it. I'm of Irish heritage and it really doesn't bother me too much because I can laugh at it, but seriously why is okay to bash the Irish and everyone else is off limits??

 

[Cyke101]

Re: Obama's Favourite Episode

I haven't watched the ep. in the last year, but I don't think it was about them being worthy of a 1st contact. Was it even a 1st contact? On the worthiness angle, it seemed that only their leader was a bit evil. I don't remember anyone else being shown in too bad of a light. Yareena wasn't involved in anything that the Vulcan don't do on a regular basis and they are one of the main UFP worlds!!

It wasn't about 1st contact, no. But I think a fundamental flaw in this episode was seeing the crew deal with a culture that they otherwise wouldn't have, because the writing made them unbelievable as an advanced race (and why there would be 1st contact in the first place). In the actual episode titled First Contact, that race could at least be negotiated with and the viewer saw the potential in them being a space-faring race. But for this culture in this episode, we saw none of that. Sure, they had bright lights, but not much else to justify dealing with them, period (tech can only go so far in a first contact).

Again, bringing up Justice as an example, the culture there was unbelievably close to being invited to join the Federation, despite that we saw nothing that qualified them as such, in terms of tech or communication or thought. They could have laser weapons and warp drive, but the way they dealt with things was so different than their tech levels that they still probably wouldn't have made it, had the episode been properly written. That's how I pretty much feel about the Ligonians in this episode, too.

BTW, am I the only one that has noticed that the Irish are one of the few groups of people left where it is considered okay to stereotype and bash them for laughs? Just in the last year or so the Simpsons and Family guy have done it. Stand up comedians constantly do it. I'm of Irish heritage and it really doesn't bother me too much because I can laugh at it, but seriously why is okay to bash the Irish and everyone else is off limits??

Oh, I'd say there were a few people in this thread who called out TNG on their portrayals of the Irish, too. But as a non-Irishman living in Chicago (esp. after St. Patrick's Day), I can tell you that if I made fun of the Irish, I'd get my clock cleaned in a jiffy

 

[RAMA]

Re: Obama's Favourite Episode

No one made fun of the Irish...they were decent, hard working people, who were practicing a communal lifestyle. The very point of the episode was they they would make a wonderful combination with the more advanced and stodgy part of their former colonist's descendants. In fact, if anything the crew of the Enterprise preferred being around them. My wife is Irish and she watched that episode a few weeks ago and enjoyed it.

RAMA

 

[Cyke101]

Re: Obama's Favourite Episode

No one made fun of the Irish...they were decent, hard working people, who were practicing a communal lifestyle. The very point of the episode was they they would make a wonderful combination with the more advanced and stodgy part of their former colonist's descendants. In fact, if anything the crew of the Enterprise preferred being around them. My wife is Irish and she watched that episode a few weeks ago and enjoyed it.

RAMA

I just believe that O'Brien's feats and character development outweighed the otherwise piss-poor Trek Irish episodes, including Fair Haven. While not necessarily offensive to the Irish, it was just offensively boring.

 

[TS-1838-SWATH]

Re: Obama's Favourite Episode

If you haven't already, read this, Boy Wonder:
http://www.tvsquad.com/2008/04/28/star-trek-the-next-generation-code-of-honor/

So Say We ALL!!!

From That Page:

Behind the Scenes Memory: The sad truth is that I don't recall much of anything about this episode, other than how unhappy everyone was to be doing it. In fact, until I watched it for the first time in twenty-one years for this review, I'd completely forgotten that I was even in it.

I've read that the Ligonians were not explicitly described as entirely African American in the script, but were cast that way at the behest of director Russ Mayberry, who apparently went on to be so offensively racist and treated the actors so poorly that Gene fired him before the episode was completed and handed the directing responsibilities over to then – First AD Les Landau. [Citation Needed] (Ironically, Mayberry went on to direct quite a few episodes of "In the Heat of the Night," which proves either that he learned something from this experience or that he's really good at directing stories about racists.)

There was absolutely nothing racist about it. They were a proud and sophisticated society of dark skinned aliens. Even if they were black humans it wouldn't have been racist. Unless you are going to suggest that modern Africa is somehow racist...wait, that doesn't make sense.

And neither does the notion that there is something racist about this episode.

We've seen plenty of sword/spear wielding societies in Trek made of of white humans. Why is it suddenly racist to show black humans doing the same thing? And how exactly does their clothing somehow make it worse?

Real racism should be fought at every turn, but wasting time on things like this is just foolish and misguided.

The episode just stunk.

See first quote,
This is why some of the cast Wil Wheaton and IIRC Jonathan Frakes to name two felt the episode was racist.

This episode was Crap & had old African stereotypes

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: Obama's Favourite Episode

I thought the Bringlodi were aliens? If not its even more insulting. The Bringlodi epsiode engaged in shameless stereotyping and if you know any Irish star trek fans they would tell you its ridiculous, in other words Irish people would prefer not to be typecast as famine era peasants in space.

FWIW, there is a specific reason that the Irish colonists in that episode acted the way they did. They were followers of a philosopher who advocated that very lifestyle.

You may accuse TNG of racism against the Irish, but then again, the character of Miles O'Brien also arose from that show. He was hardly a stereotype.

 

[Keith1701]

Re: Obama's Favourite Episode

I'm not sure if Obama would have a favourite episode.

 

[DarKush]

Re: Obama's Favourite Episode

First of all I shouldn't be surprised that the person who titled this thread "Obama's Favorite Episode" found nothing offensive about it at all.

I did find it offensive. I think it portrayed blacks/Africans in a stereotypical fashion. One of the few, or perhaps only time any Trek crew has visited a world populated by a majority of black skinned aliens and it looks like 'tribal' Africa, and they even have a fight over a white woman to boot.

Why couldn't it be an advanced civilization, without the tribal African trappings? Sure, there were some white skinned aliens that had clubs, etc., but there were white societies that were highly advanced, and nearly 'perfect', such as the Ba'ku, and I didn't see one black, brown, red, or yellow skinned person among them.

I wouldn't have minded the Ligonians as much if they had showed different types of black-skinned aliens on Trek, but they never did again. They sprinkled a few blacks here and there among some majority white alien societies, but I don't think any were the leaders or of particular talent in any of the shows. Its possible that the Haliians, Halanans were majority black and might have fit the bill for diversity, but since they never showed the homeworlds so we don't know.

The truth of the matter is the Ligonians were pretty much it for a Trek example of a black-skinned alien civilization, while you got a far greater variety of white skinned alien societies. I don't think its a fair comparison. Even Marina Sirtis and Tracy Torme thought the episode was offensive and I agree with them.

Whenever these racial type of things come up so many people are quick to say its not racism, and they always seem so defensive. I get a sense that there isn't a lot of walking in someone else's shoes going on among our Trek community, which seems ironic since so many of us tout how progressive Trek was/is, and how forward thinking it is, and by extension Trek fans are.

How many of you who claim that "Code of Honor" wasn't racist or offensive ever talked to an African/African-American, or a person of color to get their opinion? Some would probably agree with you, some wouldn't. But how many of you have ever really listened to what a person of color had to say, about anything besides sports, without being so defensive and in full racism denial mode if the topic of race came up?

 

[Sci]

Re: Obama's Favourite Episode

As for the negative characteristics bestowed upon them, not every race is going to be likable in Star Trek and to me they presented as a race with strong codes and principles, if a little arrogant and demanding. I actually thought them pretty realistic.

That would be all well and good, except that they were literally depicted as embodying every single anti-black, anti-African "Noble Savage" stereotype ever developed by Europeans.

ETA: And why the hell would you title this thread "Obama's Favorite Episode" if you aren't well aware of how offensive the depiction of Africans as a race of primitive, tribal thugs with rigid and bizarre codes of honor and gender roles is?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: Obama's Favourite Episode

I'm not sure if Obama would have a favourite episode.

Obama is a Trek fan, isn't he?

 

[Trek Survivor]

Re: Obama's Favourite Episode

Boywonder, I like sticking up for the underdog myself (STV rules, Nemesis is good etc) but even I have to conclude this is probably the worst ever episode of TNG. No redeeming features as far as I can see.

 

[cultcross]

Re: Obama's Favourite Episode

I recently watched the episode and for the life of me tried to work out how it can be construed as racist.

Perhaps you could look into how your thread title could be considered racist. Do you have any link to support that this is Obama's favourite episode, or is it solely because it contains black characters?

African Americans?

Asian Americans

Why does everyone have to have an 'Americans' tag on the end? Especially when talking about a planet full of aliens. And I doubt you checked on the nationality of every actor, if you're talking cast. What exactly is wrong with the word 'black'?

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Re: Obama's Favourite Episode

Code of Honour.

I recently watched the episode and for the life of me tried to work out how it can be construed as racist.

Yes Lutan and his people were all black, but where is the problem in that? Many Star Trek races have featured only Anglo Saxon characters and I actually applaud the director for only choosing African Americans in the roles as it created a much more plausible alien planet. Not every race is going to be open to cross breeding.

Why can't a whole planet feature African Americans? I'm just sorry Asian Americans could not be featured more in the series or Native Americans.

As for the negative characteristics bestowed upon them, not every race is going to be likable in Star Trek and to me they presented as a race with strong codes and principles, if a little arrogant and demanding. I actually thought them pretty realistic.

So if you happen to think this episode is racist, can you please tell me why you happen to think so.

I've never thought this episode was racist. Is this a common perception of the ep?

***ETA - after reading the other opinions I can see where some people might not like it. However, it does strike me as more sexist than anything else. Then again, there are people that can't draw the distinction between sexism and the inherent differences between men and women.***

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Re: Obama's Favourite Episode

I recently watched the episode and for the life of me tried to work out how it can be construed as racist.

Perhaps you could look into how your thread title could be considered racist. Do you have any link to support that this is Obama's favourite episode, or is it solely because it contains black characters?

African Americans?

Asian Americans

Why does everyone have to have an 'Americans' tag on the end? Especially when talking about a planet full of aliens. And I doubt you checked on the nationality of every actor, if you're talking cast. What exactly is wrong with the word 'black'?

I have a buddy who's black and refers to himself as being "Middletown-American". People gotta relax.