Of course. Only the vocal canonistas on here care about such things. Or nearly so.
To the OP, hell NO!
Clue in first time watchers?
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Of course. Only the vocal canonistas on here care about such things. Or nearly so.
To the OP, hell NO!
I'm curious... what did these friends and family have questions or concerns about? The wildly implausible species-reassignment surgery, maybe? The waste of Lorca's character? Something totally unexpected?
I mean, they can't all have just liked it unreservedly and without caveat. At least, not unless they're a whole lot less critical than anyone among my friends and family...
Why would you want to intentionally ruin Discovery's surprises for a first-time viewer unless said viewer told you that they don't mind being spoiled?
Why is it so hard for you to accept that most people don't care about the minutiae of Trek the way we do? It doesn't mean they're uncritical viewers, it just means either they are not aware of the history of the shows they way we are, or the makeup changes to the Klingons and other issues like that don't concern them as long as they enjoy the story and characters. You're acting like they're the abnormal ones instead of us.
ETA: And in answer to the OP's question, no, you shouldn't spoil new viewers on the big twists of the show. Enjoy watching the reactions of people who didn't crowd-source guessing all the events of the show in advance on the forum like we did. It's a gift. That's why I love watching videos of young kids reacting to the Darth Vader reveal in Empire. Not that the DSC reveals match that, it's just an example.
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That's kinda my point — I'm not talking about people who care about Trek's minutiae like we do. I'm talking about friends and family — "casual fans" by any definition. But when talking over Trek — and not just that, but pretty much any show or movie we've watched in common, from Game of Thrones to the latest Marvel or Star Wars movie — the people I'm talking about definitely take a thoughtfully critical approach to the material.
They're just smart people. That doesn't require being a diehard fan. I assume lots of people are like that. It would be insulting to assume otherwise.
They're just smart people. That doesn't require being a diehard fan. I assume lots of people are like that. It would be insulting to assume otherwise.
The only one being insulting is you towards his friends and family simply for having a different set of priorities than you and your friends and family. Just because they aren't concerned about Klingon makeup changes doesn't make them uncritical or not smart, which you're ever so subtly implying with each new post.
I honestly don't see what's got your hackles up here. In the posts you quoted, I (1) noted that it was "interesting" that in my experience (unlike @Keeper's) discussing the show with people IRL, they took note of the differences in the Klingons, and (2) asked what his/her friends and family did have questions about, since he/she only mentioned what they didn't. In both posts I was completely polite, diplomatic, and straightforward. No insult was intended or implied, and if it seemed otherwise, @Keeper is free to say so. I was merely trying to use his/her remarks as a springboard for more in-depth conversation, out of sincere curiosity.
It seemed as if you were implying that casual watchers who didn't speak up about the changes to the Klingons (and other issues) were not being smart or discerning viewers, which I didn't think was a particularly fair or nice thing to say when someone was sharing the reaction of their friends and family. If that was not your intent, then I apologize.
reply @lawman They are not uber-fans. They like Trek but don't hyper-analyze Trek the way we do. They are into it while it is on, reacting in all the ways you'd expect from an audience, (laughing, groaning, cheering, being surprised etc.) but deeper analytics isn't their style. In fact it turns them off.*
They are like me and my associations with other TV franchises I like but am not 'obsessive'* about. lol I watch installments and have reactions, perhaps even comment about whatever is going on during the viewing but when the episode is finished, barring any summation I may have about what I just experienced, so am I.
*The point I am skirting here, one I alluded to in prior post is... while they like Trek they don't like "Trekkieness". Get my drift?
They are like me and my associations with other TV franchises I like but am not 'obsessive'* about. lol I watch installments and have reactions, perhaps even comment about whatever is going on during the viewing but when the episode is finished, barring any summation I may have about what I just experienced, so am I.
*The point I am skirting here, one I alluded to in prior post is... while they like Trek they don't like "Trekkieness". Get my drift?
Okay, guess I get your point. I suppose my dad is kinda like what you describe... watches (and reads) a lot of things, but doesn't really get into deeper analysis of them, nor volunteer his thoughts on them. Although if someone else gets a conversation going, he can hold his own.
He's kind of an outlier, though. I don't see my extended family too often these days, but I did visit for the holidays last year, and a bunch of us went to see the latest Star Wars film. Now, as I have mentioned around here before, I am not a Star Wars fan. I don't give two hoots about its continuity, I was literally unaware (until informed by posters here) that there was an animated TV show, and I wouldn't even bother to see the movies if friends or family didn't make a point of it. Nonetheless, in the aftermath of seeing it, we all had a very spirited conversation about the strengths and weaknesses of the movie, and various points of plot and theme and characterization, and questionable bits of story logic. Nobody was bothered by Luke's grumpiness (I really think only a certain faction of die-hard SW fans care about that, the kind who idealized Luke as a role model despite all on-screen evidence), but we all (including my dad) discussed lots of other aspects of it.
My girlfriend is Chinese. She didn't grow up in the US, so she had never seen the original SW trilogy. Therefore (at her behest) we watched it together last fall, before TLJ came out. She guessed in advance that Vader was Luke's father (among other plot points). SW has never been one for subtle, intricate plotting.
I think movies in general (especially movies that aren't part of ongoing franchises) might be a better example of what we're talking about than TV shows, because people don't go into them with lots of pre-formed expectations and loyalties. Even so, when I see a movie with friends, a big part of the experience is dissecting that sucker afterward — its strengths, its weaknesses, everything about it. That's why it's usually more fun to share a viewing experience with people than to watch something by yourself — for the conversation afterwards! Sometimes the conversation can be more interesting than the movie, frankly.
And when it comes to TV shows that do build up viewer attachment over time, that's just amplified. Not just Trek; take any show that has enough backstory and worldbuilding, or intricate plotting, or nuanced themes, to make for a meaty discussion... from Game of Thrones to Doctor Who to House of Cards to, heck, Rick & Morty... and by god, we discuss it! In depth. That's part of the fun. If I don't have friends to watch something with, I often go to online forums like these (but less specialized... the comments sections on AV Club reviews are usually insightful, for instance) to find that kind of conversation. Other people's perspectives often inform my own in unexpected and fascinating ways.
I don't think of this as "obsessive"... I just think of it as engaged. If a show isn't complex enough to engage me on that level, I simply tend not to watch it. (Helps keep my time spent staring at glowing rectangles down to a reasonable level.)
Basically, I analyze everything in my life, including entertainment. I hang out with people who like to do the same (if not always to the same degree as me). Perhaps it's an artifact of living in a college town, I dunno. But that's why I'm always surprised if people don't do that... and why I'm curious (as I asked) about what other people did react to in a show like DSC, especially if it's different from what I reacted to.
He's kind of an outlier, though. I don't see my extended family too often these days, but I did visit for the holidays last year, and a bunch of us went to see the latest Star Wars film. Now, as I have mentioned around here before, I am not a Star Wars fan. I don't give two hoots about its continuity, I was literally unaware (until informed by posters here) that there was an animated TV show, and I wouldn't even bother to see the movies if friends or family didn't make a point of it. Nonetheless, in the aftermath of seeing it, we all had a very spirited conversation about the strengths and weaknesses of the movie, and various points of plot and theme and characterization, and questionable bits of story logic. Nobody was bothered by Luke's grumpiness (I really think only a certain faction of die-hard SW fans care about that, the kind who idealized Luke as a role model despite all on-screen evidence), but we all (including my dad) discussed lots of other aspects of it.
My girlfriend is Chinese. She didn't grow up in the US, so she had never seen the original SW trilogy. Therefore (at her behest) we watched it together last fall, before TLJ came out. She guessed in advance that Vader was Luke's father (among other plot points). SW has never been one for subtle, intricate plotting.
I think movies in general (especially movies that aren't part of ongoing franchises) might be a better example of what we're talking about than TV shows, because people don't go into them with lots of pre-formed expectations and loyalties. Even so, when I see a movie with friends, a big part of the experience is dissecting that sucker afterward — its strengths, its weaknesses, everything about it. That's why it's usually more fun to share a viewing experience with people than to watch something by yourself — for the conversation afterwards! Sometimes the conversation can be more interesting than the movie, frankly.
And when it comes to TV shows that do build up viewer attachment over time, that's just amplified. Not just Trek; take any show that has enough backstory and worldbuilding, or intricate plotting, or nuanced themes, to make for a meaty discussion... from Game of Thrones to Doctor Who to House of Cards to, heck, Rick & Morty... and by god, we discuss it! In depth. That's part of the fun. If I don't have friends to watch something with, I often go to online forums like these (but less specialized... the comments sections on AV Club reviews are usually insightful, for instance) to find that kind of conversation. Other people's perspectives often inform my own in unexpected and fascinating ways.
I don't think of this as "obsessive"... I just think of it as engaged. If a show isn't complex enough to engage me on that level, I simply tend not to watch it. (Helps keep my time spent staring at glowing rectangles down to a reasonable level.)
Basically, I analyze everything in my life, including entertainment. I hang out with people who like to do the same (if not always to the same degree as me). Perhaps it's an artifact of living in a college town, I dunno. But that's why I'm always surprised if people don't do that... and why I'm curious (as I asked) about what other people did react to in a show like DSC, especially if it's different from what I reacted to.
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