Cloaking Devices and The Pact
- Thread starter nx1701g
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I would think so - my understanding at least is the Typhon Pact doesn't void out any treaty that previously existed between powers. The Pact is sort of a reflection of the Federation, remember, and joining the Federation doesn't make any treaties between other species or planets null and void.
the typhon pact shouldnt have any effect on the treaty of algeron since the romulan government still exists. however the hobus supernova in -87 that is in ST09 might void the treaty, but theres no canon confirmation yet. pretty much anything regarding this subject is mere guessing an theorizing so dont hope for much.
All I know is, if the Romulans start sharing cloaking technology with the rest of the Pact--or, on the other side, if Donatra or the Klingons share the same kind of tech with the rest of the Alliance--
It's a clear path to an outbreak of war--or at the very least, a very severe arms race.
It's a clear path to an outbreak of war--or at the very least, a very severe arms race.
thing is, nothing prevents the pact from sharing cloak tech. its the feds that are prevented by the treaty of algeron. if they receive a cloak from the klingons it will still go against the treaty. the pact can play around with each others tech all they want.
Well i tend to think that this has somewhat of a profound effect on the Treaty, not to mention that it has seemed for awhile now that the Treaty is simply outdated. The current state in which the Romulan Empire is in right now would suggest that all bets are off, they are split in half, they've joined the Pact a somewhat overt and direct threat to the federation, Shinzon's thalaron weapon. I think recent events will hopefully push the federation to simply cease honoring this treaty as the romulans have broken it one too many times, not to mention that in the book "Before Dishonor" it was mentioned that most new starships have a cloaking device that can only be authorized for use by an Admiral.
I believe that was actually in Resistance. And it's not that they have cloaking devices, it's that they have the specifications for such a device in their computers.
Yes your right it was "Resistance". At least i think it shows that the federation is willing to look past this old treaty, and realize that times change and current times may dictate the need and use of cloaking technology. Also when considering the risk, reward factor, I find no risk with implementing cloaking technology. I cant possibly see the romulans declaring war against the federation in their current state without dragging in the Pact which in turn would escalate things to a massive degree, something I don't think either side could afford now but on the other hand the reward is clear.
I havent read ZSG yet so I might be wrong about the political state of the Pact and the Federation and it's allies.
Well, as I've pointed out many times, the problem with cloaking technology is that it just doesn't work well in most types of Starfleet vessel. The more power a ship generates, the more powerful the cloak has to be to hide its emissions, and so you quickly reach a point of diminishing returns. Cloaks work best on bare-bones ships, battleships with no luxuries, no science labs, no holodecks, minimal replicators and creature comforts -- ships like a Klingon battlecruiser or a Defiant-class vessel. For something like a Galaxy-class luxury liner-cum-university in space, a cloak just wouldn't be very practical. I believe that's why Starfleet signed the treaty in the first place -- because cloaks aren't something they've generally had much use for.
Im new to the board, so i hadnt noticed you mentioned this before. You bring up a good point though about how cloaking technology works, come to think of it the defiants power emissions were so powerful that the cloak had a hard time masking them. I suppose the only practical way to install cloaks into federation ships would be to build a line of defiant class type starships, something im not sure the federation would be willing to do or can do with the current limited resources.
I think the point is that it's not the size of the ship that matters but the energy emissions a cloak would have to mask. While I think the enterprise E has a better chance of being cloaked then say the enterprise D, i still think their would be major flaws in doing that efficiently.
I think Starfleet should start mass-producing cloaking devices on the day the Pact declares war on the Federation. Starfleet Intelligence must have some fleet compatible prototype buried somewhere in the event of a war with the Romulans. Certainly, Section 31 must have one, and they can slip the prototype under the door of the Fleet Admiral should hostilities break out. The Romulans will yell about the research indicating a long-time Federation betrayal of the Accords, but I doubt anybody will care by that point. Besides, they can just claim that it was a natural extension of the device already in use on the Defiant (which it will be...even if it took them a few years to develop a device that could be used on the rest of the fleet).
Right. Presumably all Klingon warships are similarly bare-bones and stripped down in their power usage; they don't have science labs, science-oriented sensors, holodecks, bars, arboretums, day care centers, etc. using up energy. They're strictly for combat and lacking in luxuries. So while I find it implausible that a ship as large as the Negh'Var or a Romulan D'Deridex Warbird could be effectively cloaked (or indeed have any reason to be built at all), it's more plausible than it would be for a multifunction, luxury-equipped Starfleet vessel like a Galaxy-class ship.
hmm, the damn thing doesnt even have mattresses... thats probably as bare-bone as you can get.
It could be argued that since 1) the Imperial Romulan State now exists, and is a Federation ally; and 2) the Romulan Star Empire is part of the Typhon Pact, that the Treaty of Algeron is no longer valid.
The Romulan State can share all of the technology it wants, couldn't it? Who's going to stop them? Also, given the fractured state of Romulan politics in general (and that the Romulan Empire has subsumed itself into the Pact) that the Empire is not likely to put up much of a fight should the Federation start developing cloaking devices.
To put it another way: Why should the Federation continue to honor a treaty signed with a government that, in a technical sense, no longer exists?
Although I do definitely accept the explanation that cloaking a Federation starship (other than the Defiant class) is not generally efficient, given the power requirements and less than 100% effective results.
The Romulan State can share all of the technology it wants, couldn't it? Who's going to stop them? Also, given the fractured state of Romulan politics in general (and that the Romulan Empire has subsumed itself into the Pact) that the Empire is not likely to put up much of a fight should the Federation start developing cloaking devices.
To put it another way: Why should the Federation continue to honor a treaty signed with a government that, in a technical sense, no longer exists?
Although I do definitely accept the explanation that cloaking a Federation starship (other than the Defiant class) is not generally efficient, given the power requirements and less than 100% effective results.
But didn't the Ent-D successfully use the Phase cloak in "Pegasus", without power issues. With enough refinement it would be possible.
They used the phase cloak for a couple of minutes. That doesn't mean it'd be viable for continued use. Given a little more time to figure out the situation, the Romulans probably could've picked up all sorts of leaking emissions.
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Fleet Captain
Please
.Such a power problem is trivially easy to solve.
Just turn the power switch off, close a few science labs and holodecks (they are not needed during the espionage/combat missions a ship has to undertake during cold - and hot - wars) and a cloak will work just as it works on klingon/romulan ships of similar size.
Shouldn't the Federation now have access to cloaking tech through their allies in the Imperial Romulan State?
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