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Classifying Star Wars: Fantasy? Science Fiction? Speculative Fiction? Space Opera?

For the most part I tend to take Star Wars on terms with it being 1977. For one thing, that's how I encountered it. For another that's how it was made. And in 1977 there wasn't anything about the tech that was "retro" or "throwback". Even the way ships were shot / lit was much more real life Apollo / 2001: ASO than Star Trek. Way more than TNG era Star Trek.
. . . and yet the inspiration for most of that was firmly rooted in the Flash Gordon serials of the 30's & 40's. So it's not quite as straightforward as all that.
It's not 1976 technology, nor is it 1940's technology, but 1940's idea of future technology filtered though some 60's graphic design aesthetics, 50's & 60 industrial aerospace sensibilities, with a more roughed up, lived in weathering pass. It's a pretty weird alchemical mix, which is partly why it's so distinct, recognisable, and oddly timeless. If it were just straight up modern 70's tech and art-design, then it would have looked like 'Logan's Run', which of course it does not.

For me, probably the biggest clue as to the retro-tech aesthetic is Artoo's scomp link (usually just called a "computer arm" in the scripts.) It's clearly as much of a physical mechanism as it is just a data port. Even by mid-to-late 70's standards that's an almost quaintly naive piece of electro-mechanics. Of course the real reason it looks like that it to give visual interest, and evoke somewhat the intricate inner workings of retro-sci-fi elements such as Robbie the Robot's inner workings.

We've made some slight "advances" in Star Wars. "Slicing" was introduced (is that a Zahn thing?) and finally mentioned on screen in The Last Jedi. (If it was in Clone Wars I don't know anything about that.)

It was probably actually a WEG RPG thing. That's where Zahn and most of the early 90's authors were told to use as the main lore reference source outside of the movies.

Regardless; again it's almost always portrayed as about as much akin to hot-wiring as it is to code hacking as we understand it. Again; there's a clear mechanical component to it. So again, that circles back to what I said before about keeping it within the bounds of what could be at least described in 40's terms.
Probably one of the only times they've dipped out of that was the inclusion of nano-droids, but even that just barely fits within those bounds.
 
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There are good and reasonable labels for all of this stuff, sure. My issues are with the consistency of the labels and with then with where Lucas himself draws his lines. I know for a lot of people MOST of what we watch on TV or at the movies is in the same lump with Star Wars, Flash Gordon, and A Princess of Mars.

But it is only with Star Wars that people say "Oh. Well. You know that's NOT science fiction."

"You know there's no sound in space". Well, if that's our new line then Star Trek, 2010, and pretty much every other formerly sci-fi movie gets the heave ho. 2001 and Firefly are the only two properties that come to mind that get to stay. (And even Firefly couldn't quite hold the line when they got a movie.)

"I wanted to forget science."



(Yes, that's from memory.) Star TREK didn't ever go into that kind of detail! (Not in TOS anyway.) Warp Drive made you go fast. If it broke you had to go slow. Maybe it was powered by anti-matter. Maybe it was dilithium. It depended on the week. What is dilithium? Well, that's because the makers of Star Trek "wanted to forget science".

There's just too much science in Star Wars (Star Wars - 1977 - Directed by George Lucas no bloody IV no bloody A New Hope, and certainly no sequels or prequels) for George to get his "get out of Sci-Fi Free" card. Even in The Empire Strikes Back. With the exception of The Force (which isn't in the original Star Wars that much AND is no more fantastical than Mentats or The Squire of Gothos or Gary Mitchel) it's all pretty grounded science-y hardware. Even holograms were pretty up-to-the-minute in 1977. The desert planet has "moisture farmers". There's a centralized government with recognizable fascist tropes. Ray guns and shields, right out of that other Star thing. Data tapes and droids.

Does any of it work when you start introducing the real vastness of space, the power requirements of your planet killer, interplanetary communication, artificial gravity and whatnot? Probably not.

And it doesn't in almost every other visual representation of "science fiction".
I think the big thing that makes things like Star Trek science fiction and not Star Wars, is that Star Trek tends to focus on the science and the technology, while Star Wars rarely ever touches on it. We didn't get 5 minute science lectures in The Mandalorian or Ahsoka explaining the latest strange space phenomenon that Din and Grogu or Ahoska and Sabine ran into. Or storylines focusing on engineers trying to get their ships computer systems back up and running after they mysteriously crash.
 
Tallguy said:
"Slicing" was introduced (is that a Zahn thing?) and finally mentioned on screen in The Last Jedi.
But they changed it to 'codebreaking', dropping the Zahn nomenclature. Slicing sounds better but maybe they didn't want to confuse general audiences?
 
But they changed it to 'codebreaking', dropping the Zahn nomenclature. Slicing sounds better but maybe they didn't want to confuse general audiences?
Slicing sounds cool if you understand it.

Outside of Star Wars literature fans or gaming fans it sounds like a lost level of Fruit Ninja.

Also, don't we on Earth have multiple terms for the same job? Codebreaking and slicing could be the same idea, depending on the system.

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I can't find the link now, but I believe Bob Salvatore, famed for his Forgotten Realms Drizzt novels and his 2 SW novels (the AOTC novelization, and the book where Chewie died in Legends) said that he personally thinks of Star Wars as fantasy, not sci-fi. Considering his extensive background in fantasy, his opinion probably would carry some weight.
 
Star Wars is fantasy because it’s plot is a fantasy plot — there is no use of the scientific method to figure things out, and if you change “spaceship” and “Force” to “horse” and magic”, the story stays exactly the same.

(That’s the big story, I mean. The Clone Wars episode about a clone uncovering the mind-control chip? That one actually was science fiction, and I was quite surprised.)
 
(That’s the big story, I mean. The Clone Wars episode about a clone uncovering the mind-control chip? That one actually was science fiction, and I was quite surprised.)
It also created a lot of problems that still haven't been sufficiently resolved honestly. The old explanation was that clones obeyed orders without question as stated in AOTC. The new explanation, where clones go into Jedi-killing frenzies over magical Hydra sleeper agent trigger words makes one wonder why the entire 501st did not immediately shoot down Anakin before he even had a chance to lead them to raid the Jedi Temple in ROTS.
 
It also created a lot of problems that still haven't been sufficiently resolved honestly. The old explanation was that clones obeyed orders without question as stated in AOTC. The new explanation, where clones go into Jedi-killing frenzies over magical Hydra sleeper agent trigger words makes one wonder why the entire 501st did not immediately shoot down Anakin before he even had a chance to lead them to raid the Jedi Temple in ROTS.
“Kill all the Jedi, and note that I hereby declare that Anakin Skywalker is NOT one, so follow his orders.”
 
Star Wars is fantasy because it’s plot is a fantasy plot — there is no use of the scientific method to figure things out, and if you change “spaceship” and “Force” to “horse” and magic”, the story stays exactly the same.

(That’s the big story, I mean. The Clone Wars episode about a clone uncovering the mind-control chip? That one actually was science fiction, and I was quite surprised.)
That plot was ok, though I thought it took something away from the intention of the clones. I am heavily biased with the novel's interpretation though of them just taking the orders.

But, yes, by and large, the story stays the same if we take away all the traditionally science fiction elements. There's a reason Lucas calls them "laser swords."

“Kill all the Jedi, and note that I hereby declare that Anakin Skywalker is NOT one, so follow his orders.”
He's not Anakin though. He's Darth Vader, Palpatine's right hand man. His affiliation changed.
 
That plot was ok, though I thought it took something away from the intention of the clones. I am heavily biased with the novel's interpretation though of them just taking the orders.

But, yes, by and large, the story stays the same if we take away all the traditionally science fiction elements. There's a reason Lucas calls them "laser swords."


He's not Anakin though. He's Darth Vader, Palpatine's right hand man. His affiliation changed.
Well, the intentions about the clones changed for the franchise over time. If you just watch the movies (and stop before they have a chance to spin off cartoons, etc), it’s absolutely clear that the Clonetroopers are the Stormtroopers, and that’s why they never took their helmets off in the OT. But then the thinking changed as the spin-offs went on, and Stormtroopers became a replacement instead.
 
I can't find the link now, but I believe Bob Salvatore, famed for his Forgotten Realms Drizzt novels and his 2 SW novels (the AOTC novelization, and the book where Chewie died in Legends) said that he personally thinks of Star Wars as fantasy, not sci-fi. Considering his extensive background in fantasy, his opinion probably would carry some weight.
It says space fantasy right on the cover of the original comics! :cool:
 
It says space fantasy right on the cover of the original comics! :cool:
Those same comics where Vader shouts "By the immortal gods of the Sith!" when Han shows up out of nowhere in the ANH adaptation?
“Kill all the Jedi, and note that I hereby declare that Anakin Skywalker is NOT one, so follow his orders.”
Clonetrooper: Sir, last I checked only the Jedi Council had the authority to strip Skywalker of his Jedi status, not the Chancellor. If Mace Windu or Yoda say Skywalker's not a Jedi, then fine, otherwise officially he is a Jedi and open to Order 66.

Palpatine: :mad:
 
Those same comics where Vader shouts "By the immortal gods of the Sith!" when Han shows up out of nowhere in the ANH adaptation?
That definitely should have been in a follow up movie.

Of course, we never heard about a Sith in the OT either ;)
 
Palpatine had been plotting to turn Anakin for about as long as he'd been planning to use the clones to take over the Republic. He was probably an exception to the order from the day the clones were born.
 
That was also a thing in Legends lore as well IIRC
Well, the whole "Clone Wars" sparked the imagination, as well as the allusion to Fett's armor in the ESB novelization of being remnant from group of warriors who fought the Jedi in the Clone wars. Then you had the unreleased Kenner Line including more clone villains from the old Clone War showing back up post ROTJ.

Clones were all the rage in Star Wars. Everyone had one.
 
Those same comics where Vader shouts "By the immortal gods of the Sith!" when Han shows up out of nowhere in the ANH adaptation?

Clonetrooper: Sir, last I checked only the Jedi Council had the authority to strip Skywalker of his Jedi status, not the Chancellor. If Mace Windu or Yoda say Skywalker's not a Jedi, then fine, otherwise officially he is a Jedi and open to Order 66.

Palpatine: :mad:
"Good soldiers follow orders" and no one had higher authority over the Grand Army of the Republic than the Chancellor.....Lord Sidious.
 
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