Hello
eyeresist
Hello ihno! I'm not generally a hipster, but prefer a modern chamber orchestra to the Karajan approach, as far as the classical period goes. I'm glad you are unafraid to like Vivaldi
Who would be afraid to like Vivaldi? Because he is so popular? Or do you refer to snobby-talk?
I don't know anything about Zelenka and ought to check him out.
This was my first meeting with Zelenka:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk717tZzKkk (doctor who fans don’t BLINK)
My fave piece from the Missa votiva:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgDoKmBRAFs
We can go deeper into Vivaldi and Zelenka if you like. There is much to say but I don’t want to make my post too long, so you don’t fall asleep while reading (need that space for “Neubahn”).
Of the J Haydn symphonies I've heard I most enjoyed the Kuijken recordings, well worth hearing if you haven't yet. Hogwood doesn't do it for me, I'm afraid (largo means slow, dammit).
To be fair: Kuijken is generally much faster than Hogwood has ever been. I just checked some symphonies they recorded both. Kuijken is Cpt. Speedo … erm Speedy here.
If you prefer to have it more traditionally I suggest you check the recordings of Frans Bruggen, who died a few weeks ago (sob). He worked with “The orchestra of the 18 century” and his approach had been very “traditional” always.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c7UNT0DQA0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk6TJhH2dXQ (here non HIP)
Herreweghe is also slower than the others, in addition to his precision it makes his recordings special.
to “largo, andante” etc in general: It’s not that it’s a mystery what “slow” meant 200 years ago. Beethoven f.e. has given detailed metronome-instructions about the speed he envisioned for his symphonies.
Today traditional orchestras like Berlin Philharmonic invite Ton Koopman and Trevor Pinnock to learn from them.
I have recently compared an Abbado recording of the Pergolesi Stabat Mater from 1979 to another recording of the work he did in 2009. The late Abbado (sob) 2009 didn’t sound like he did in 1979.
There are even FAKE HIP orcestras - a dutch orchestra using old instruments but playing them modern style.
It's interesting that you favour Michael Haydn over his brother. Is this specifically in the sacred music area? I've been investigating Schubert's masses etc, and it is sadly his weakest area, though there are still some great moments in 1, 5 & 6.
I don’t know Schubert’s masses yet. You’re right I stumbled over Michael Haydn’s sacral music. There is still so much of Michael Haydn to discover, lot’s of works that have never been recorded.
I had to google "Hans Neubahn", and still don't quite get it. I read a Brahms biography years ago but this doesn't ring a bell at all. Any clarification will be welcomed...
In 1853 Robert Schumann wrote an article about the young Brahms, saying that this young musician would show new musical ways to the world. It was called “Neue Bahnen” (New ways) and did good and bad to Brahms.
In the second half of the 19th century there has been a big discourse about the “freedom” of music, the value of the sonata-form with exposition, development, reprise etc, the 4 part symphony etc. pp.
The “neudeutschen” (newgermans) around Mr. Liszt and Mr. Wagner wanted some kind of formal freedom. “The symphony died with Beethoven. All the sontata has to give has been given.” etc. pp.
Another group – the Academics – wanted to continue to use older forms like the sonataform.
This was a big debate and issue. You can even see that with Schumann’s four symphonies, the way he used and dismissed the sonata form. Schumann died before the debate really started though.
There were obvious economical, artistic and personal interests involved. And at lot of mud-throwing.
Liszt and Wagner favored their own art (poems, new opera etc.) and ridiculed Brahms and others. Maybe Liszt didn’t like Brahms, because Brahms – when they first met – had fallen asleep while Liszt performed his famous sonata in b-minor (so gossip tells us and gossip never lies!
). An unforgivable crime. And Wagner… well, I don’t know if there ever was somebody Wagner liked.
Hans Neubahn was an insulting nickname for Brahms from one of the polemic pamphlets. Hans is the short form of Johannes and “neubahn” refers to that article (neubahn is the short singular of Neue Bahnen [new ways]) ... like "Johnny Newway" or something...
I really love that name, even though I prefer Brahms – who loved Wagner’s music - for sure. Btw. Schönberg later claimed that it was Brahms, who indeed showed new ways – in decomposing the traditional strict system of harmonies.
I hope my english is sufficient for such stuff.
