City on the Edge of Forever-A question

[BK613]

How did Spock record the original timeline if McCoy changed it? If I remember correctly, McCoy jumped and changed history, then the guardian replayed history and Kirk and Spock jumped.

A follow up to that would be to ask, "How did Spock get stuff from 1936 if they are jumping through to land in 1930?" Did the GoF show them the history a third time in between the two jump viewings?

My next question, which I've wondered for decades, was why was Spock upset when Kirk caught Edith when she stumbled on the stairs? Spock claims she could have died at that moment, yet he already played the "original" obit scan where she died in a traffic accident.

I don't think Spock was expecting that to be The Death per se but was pointing out that she could have died but Kirk instinctively saved her. Something he couldn't allow himself to do when it came time for it to matter.

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ninja's by @blssdwlf

 

[ZapBrannigan]

My next question, which I've wondered for decades, was why was Spock upset when Kirk caught Edith when she stumbled on the stairs? Spock claims she could have died at that moment, yet he already played the "original" obit scan where she died in a traffic accident.

That moment always makes me think, if she sprained her ankle on the stairs, she would be safe at home later instead of playing in traffic. So Kirk was right to catch her.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Spock starts recording at this point:

SPOCK: I am a fool. My tricorder is capable of recording even at this speed. [You can hear the tricorder start recording.] I've missed taping centuries of living history which no man has ever-
SCOTT: Doctor McCoy!
KIRK: Bones, no!
[~7 seconds later, McCoy leaps through the time portal.]
...
SPOCK: I was recording images at the time McCoy left. A rather barbaric period in your American history. I believe I can approximate just when to jump. Perhaps within a month of the correct time. A week, if we're fortunate.​

Spock sounded like he was concerned that Kirk didn't have the objectiveness to let her die if it came down to it and that her death was more important than the exact time of her death in this case. IMHO.

SPOCK: I must point out that when she stumbled, she might have died right there, had you not caught her.
KIRK: It's not yet time. McCoy isn't here.
SPOCK: We're not that sure of our facts. Who's to say when the exact time will come? Save her, do as your heart tells you to do and millions will die who did not die before.​

Not to mention that her cause of death might be inaccurately determined or recorded for some reason. A paperwork mix-up, a cover-up by person or persons unknown for reasons...

 

[Frontis]

Btw Edith and Kirk have been a great couple, they fit together perfectly. Sadely just for a short time in the past...

 

[Orac]

So much fan wanking in this thread, I fear I may go blind from reading it.

Please continue.

 

[Phaser Two]

My next question, which I've wondered for decades, was why was Spock upset when Kirk caught Edith when she stumbled on the stairs? Spock claims she could have died at that moment, yet he already played the "original" obit scan where she died in a traffic accident.

Kirk points that out. Spock rebuts with the awesome line "We're not that sure of our facts."

 

[BillJ]

And, how does this bastard figure into it all...

 

[UssGlenn]

How did Spock record the original timeline if McCoy changed it? If I remember correctly, McCoy jumped and changed history, then the guardian replayed history and Kirk and Spock jumped.

Spock starts recording at this point:
SPOCK: I am a fool. My tricorder is capable of recording even at this speed. [You can hear the tricorder start recording.] I've missed taping centuries of living history which no man has ever-
SCOTT: Doctor McCoy!
KIRK: Bones, no!
[~7 seconds later, McCoy leaps through the time portal.]
...
SPOCK: I was recording images at the time McCoy left. A rather barbaric period in your American history. I believe I can approximate just when to jump. Perhaps within a month of the correct time. A week, if we're fortunate.

If time changes for the landing party instantly, then the footage Spock records should only be from the timeline where Edith lives. He shouldn't have a copy of the 1930 car accident article.

 

[BillJ]

If time changes for the landing party instantly, then the footage Spock records should only be from the timeline where Edith lives. He shouldn't have a copy of the 1930 car accident article.

Eh. I roll with it. Waves of time and everything else going on, there shouldn't be an easy answer for any of it.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

If time changes for the landing party instantly, then the footage Spock records should only be from the timeline where Edith lives. He shouldn't have a copy of the 1930 car accident article.

That doesn't scare me.

We know the tricorder was picking up more than the simple movie-like footage seen in the doughnut. It included newspaper articles, etc. Clearly, the Guardian was emitting a detailed data stream.

As McCoy jumped through and everything changed, Spock captured both versions of events. The episode says so, but not how.

The Guardian's presentation must be a multiplexed signal. When events are changed suddenly, the original version is included for a bit and then it fades away. And of course the Guardian has the unaltered original on file. Letting it play a little longer is no problem for him.

Thus the tricorder stored some deleted scenes that would have occurred had McCoy not jumped in. And the Guardian does like to talk, so there might even be a commentary track, if only Spock had a better mnemonic memory circuit to find it with.

 

[Henoch]

Eh. I roll with it. Waves of time and everything else going on, there shouldn't be an easy answer for any of it.

The Guardian's "finger prints" are all over the plot.

 

[blssdwlf]

If time changes for the landing party instantly, then the footage Spock records should only be from the timeline where Edith lives. He shouldn't have a copy of the 1930 car accident article.

When watching the episode it looks like the Guardian plays back a snippet of history that represents years or decades of time and then moves on to play another snippet, etc. I wonder if you jump in during the playback of a snippet and alter history it will cause the Guardian to have to momentarily rewind a bit to play the remainder of the snippet with the changes and you end up being able to record the before and after parts of the snippet to review. Alternatively, the act of jumping into the portal takes a few moments and the portal playback speed is extremely fast and covers a large span of time. The time McCoy of moving into the portal could be where time is in flux between the original version and the McCoy-altered version. IMHO.

SPOCK: Locked in here is the place and moment of his arrival, even the images of what he did. If only I could tie this tricorder in with the ship's computer for just a few moments.​

 

[nightwind1]

As an aside, my mother's maiden name was Gable and I've been told that Clark was a distant relative.

I've always been told that my family on my maternal grandmother's side is related to President Herbert Hoover.

I went to grade school with a boy whose last name is Patton, and whose family always told him that they were related to General George Patton.

And also in grade school, a girl with the last name of Clay, whose cousin was Cassius Clay. And I'm old enough that this was before he took the name Muhammad Ali.

 

[Rowdy Roddy McDowall]

My 32nd cousin's in both BEETLEJUICE movies.

But my mother AND Leonard Nimoy both went to grade school in Dorchester, Massachusetts approximately the same time. There's no real way of knowing if they had close proximity, though I certainly hope little Len wasn't one of the teasers who called my Mom ''Hull of a ship!'' (I guess Henry Hull was her relative also.)

 

[Mytran]

Did the GoF show them the history a third time in between the two jump viewings?

Honestly, I think this is the least complicated solution to that particular plot oversight. And it's not like Spock and Kirk are on a tight deadline or anything, they are currently stranded on the planet FOREVER!!!

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Honestly, I think this is the least complicated solution to that particular plot oversight. And it's not like Spock and Kirk are on a tight deadline or anything, they are currently stranded on the planet FOREVER!!!

If you are in a local, doughnut-proximity time bubble that insulates you from the change that wiped out the Enterprise, does that mean you will never age, and could live forever if you camped out with the Guardian?

 

[DonIago]

If you are in a local, doughnut-proximity time bubble that insulates you from the change that wiped out the Enterprise, does that mean you will never age, and could live forever if you camped out with the Guardian?

I rather figured it meant they were isolated from changes to the timeline, not isolated from the effects of time itself.