Chuckles was Right!

[Guy Gardener]

In the Flesh may have made blood stream from my tear ducts, but it proved that 8472 were basically stand up guys who just got a little zealous in defending their boarder 15 seconds after they discovered they had a boarder.

They were not going to purge the galaxy.

There was no need to ally with the Borg.

There was no need to build superweapns with the Borg

And most importantly, there was no reason to SAVE the Borg from 8472.

If Janeway had stayed in her coma for a few more weeks, or died during the events of Scorpion, the Indian's decision to ditch the Borg and run would have saved billions and billons of lives over the next few decades,

Janeway got it wrong and then made her XO feel like a gimp for getting it right.

How sad.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

A question I've had for sometime:

Why is Chakotay called 'chuckles'....?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Q called him Chuckles just the once in Death Wish and it stuck.

Meanwhile, later in the Q and the Grey, Q called Paris "Helmboy" which in my mind stuck just as well... However after thinking twice I had to censor myself in the Enterprise Forum in so as not to refer to Travis Mayweather as "Helmboy".

Q is also the bloke who got the whole "Kathy" thing started.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Q called him Chuckles just the once in Death Wish and it stuck.

Meanwhile, later in the Q and the Grey, Q called Paris "Helmboy" which in my mind stuck just as well... However after thinking twice I had to censor myself in the Enterprise Forum in so as not to refer to Travis Mayweather as "Helmboy".

Q is also the bloke who got the whole "Kathy" thing started.

I see....

 

[Deks]

The Voyager crew had no way of knowing 8472 will NOT purge the galaxy.
Kes conveyed a clear message to the crew from 8472 during her telepathic contact:
'Your galaxy will be purged'.

Not much room for leeway given the circumstances (plus, the first bio-ship Voyager encountered attacked Kim [who was clearly NOT Borg] and also fired on the ship itself).

Perhaps it was later on established that 8472 were not out to destroy the galaxy ... but, at the time of Scorpion, they had 0 way of knowing it.

It is also possible that 8472 was indeed bent on purging the Milky-Way galaxy of all life as they conveyed to Kes (at first) ... but it wasn't until their bio-ships were destroyed that they decided to rethink their tactic and thought: "Perhaps trying to purge this galaxy would not be such a wise move, taking into consideration a single ship was able to devise a viable weapon that can destroy ours. If they distribute this technology throughout the galaxy, we will ultimately suffer a grave defeat".

 

[Guy Gardener]

Most of what you are saying is kinda trueish, but this is not a what if, this Happened, "Captain" Chakotay had all the information at hand and still he said, "Let's leg it. Frakk their war, I want a thousand lightyears between me and that cclusterfuckery by breakfast."

How many thousands of years would it take them to purge the Galaxy? And how about someone tells them that their scanning tech sucks ass, and that their is an infinite number of galaxies in this universe which will take them an infinite number of years to purge.

Can you say "quagmire"?

Although, Chakotay was intending to hand over the nanoprobes, a half completed weapon, to the borg when he told Seven that he was intent on marooning her and her posse of drone on some backwater moon. So the Borg were going to "win" probably and the galaxy wouldn't be purged (maybe?).

Besides, whatever seemed true in Scorpion, was trumped by the new truth in in the flesh, and further more that their "friend-ship" with the federation after the fact developed to a point that the two empires shared "sex manuals" with each other.

You don't trade porn with your enemies.

(can you imagine the Germans and English tactical trench to trench messenger pigeoning lithographs of naked bottoms to each other across the divide of no mans land flanders field to match tac against the porn vacuum? Nature abhors a vacuum and so you can imagine how chronic masturbators feel about a porn vacuum when the closest women is about 8 hundred miles away?)

Their lack of conviction, shown by how they turned tail at the first sign of opposition in Scorpion proved that their heart(s?) where really not into the slaughter and it's doubt ful they had much steam left in them to exterminate many more species after they finished whacking the last borg if this all the sack they brought to the party.

 

[Deks]

The problem was in how Chakotay wanted to handle things.
Kathryn didn't want to give the Borg their half-finished weapon because it was Voyager's only bargaining chip for survival.
We saw how 7 immediately terminated their alliance once the bio-ships began retreating ... who is to say the Borg simply wouldn't come after Voyager and assimilate it for raw material?
They were in a war and pretty much desperate enough to go for it one way or the other.

You are also forgetting that 8472 is highly advanced and constructed a training habitat to infiltrate SF itself thousands of LY's away from Borg space.
This indicates into the possibility that their FTL capabilities are at least on par with the Borg, if not far above it.
And, taking into consideration their weapons technology, it would be simple enough to deploy thousands upon thousands of ships into a galaxy in various locations and just purge everything.

It would likely take time, but I'm guessing it would be doable for them within a reasonable time-frame.

Also, they spoke of Milky Way galaxy in terms of purging ... not others.

 

[Admiral Shran]

Q called him Chuckles just the once in Death Wish and it stuck.

Meanwhile, later in the Q and the Grey, Q called Paris "Helmboy" which in my mind stuck just as well... However after thinking twice I had to censor myself in the Enterprise Forum in so as not to refer to Travis Mayweather as "Helmboy".

Q is also the bloke who got the whole "Kathy" thing started.

Does that mean we can start saying "Bar Rat" instead of "Neelix"?

 

[nx1701g]

^ I thought it was Kitchen Rat?

 

[kes7]

I believe it is "Bar Rodent" (courtesy of Q in "Q and the Grey") AND "Kitchen Rat" (courtesy of Q Junior in "Q2").

Neelix is many things.

 

[Admiral Shran]

^ Well, I'm going to start calling Neelix one of those. Now I'm going to have to watch those episodes to see which one I like the best.

 

[Green Shirt]

Can you say "quagmire"?

"Giggety, giggety!"

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Besides, Chuckles had personal reasons for not dealing with the Borg. Remember when they assimilated him through is foot? (Yup, isn't that just awful writing at it's best?)

He had a personal vendetta anyway, so I'd say his judgment was pretty whacked up, too. It just so happens that Kathryn's guess was off and Chuck's guess was more on.

 

[jaegermistress]

The Voyager crew had no way of knowing 8472 will NOT purge the galaxy.
Kes conveyed a clear message to the crew from 8472 during her telepathic contact:
'Your galaxy will be purged'.

Exactly. The only information being relied upon in Scorpion were Kes's visions, which clearly illustrated a threat. Furthermore, 8472 was trying to access her memory (such as when she was programming nanoprobes) for intelligence.

Janeway still should have dawdled and let 8472 kill off more of the Borg. This was tactically clear regardless of allegiances. The Federation executed the same principle with Cardassia/Bajor, so why not here?

 

[Guy Gardener]

The more Borg lost in this conflict, the more "safe" surplus population(s) they would have had to have assimilated who otherwise would have been left alone for future consideration down the line, just to recover to their former numbers and capabilities.

It seems that it must have been possible to talk to 8472 if you are not a 3 year old little girl or Psychopathic Xenophobic zealots with the communication skills and empathy of a pet rock.

Captain Janeway or Acting Captain Chakotay could have gone the diplomatic route, but mass slaughter seemed easier.