Christianity and Star Trek

[Deks]

You 'BenRoethig ' perceive the world and many aspects of it through 'belief'.
An atheist does NOT.
It's as simple as that.
If you need a reeducation in the word definition department, then feel free to find a dictionary or a credible online source that will provide the necessary information.

But I am starting to repeat myself.
Definitions of words such as 'theist' and 'atheist' are available.
Look them up.
And if you still insist on your notion that YOU are correct after looking them up, then my dear friend keep in mind that is your personal opinion (to which you are entitled to) and not one that everyone share or see as 'correct'.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

BenRoethig said:

-Brett- said:

BenRoethig said:
I would like to say this. Atheism is a religious belief.

Christians do seem to like perpetuating this lie. Does the idea of someone without a religion scare you that much?

Be honest with yourself about why you don't believe in Thor, Ra, and Zeus and you'll understand why atheists don't believe in your god.

No it doesn't, but apparently the idea of someone having religion beliefs does scare you or just the truth that atheism isn't anymore based in fact than any other belief. It's just what you do or don't choose to believe.

Knock it off.

 

[Apogeal Alpha01]

I have to agree. Atheism is a lack of a belief. However strongly they believe that there is no God, they have no doctrine for not believing in the existance of a God, creator of humanity and the world around us.

 

[Chuckling]

Um yes, I am writing an article actually. It's for a publishing house that publishes a number of magazines, one of which examines a wide variety of topics for Christians to discuss. I'm writing another article for them on chemical overload and health, another covers an interview with a world renowned photographer and another is on war memorials in today's world.

Their publications cover a wide range of topics.

Again, thank you to everyone for giving their views.

Is there anyone who would rather I didn't quote what they say? I'm not planning on using people's names/tags.

Chuckling

 

[Amaris]

Good luck with your article, Chuckling. Let us know how it turns out.


J.

 

[Chuckling]

Thanks!

Chuckling

 

[Kegek]

I wouldn't mind being quoted, but I would prefer if you did use my nom de guerre.

Still, your call. Good luck on that article!

 

[LadyNRA]

I'm sorry you had such experiences.
For example I am an Atheist and I have no problem with religiously inclined people if we generally get along.
I have a best friend who is a Christian, and she would be the most ideal 'example/role model' for other Christians in my own opinion.
She is very open minded, tolerant, we can talk about a variety of issues without censorship of any kind.
And even though we disagree on certain things, those are just our personal opinions and we present them to each other like that.
But we hardly try to convince each other that any one of us is 'right' or 'wrong'.
I had most problems with people who are religious and conservative.
With those I was unable to find common ground despite the fact I accepted their opinions as their own but didn't adopt them as my own.
They would simply try to convince me I am wrong on numerous accounts (in thought pattern and actions) instead of presenting their opinions as their own without trying to force me to see them as being correct.

From my own experience, a lot (but not all) religiously inclined individuals have tried to change my mind to be more like them because they thought I was in the 'wrong'.
I distanced myself from such people because I may be open to hearing out other peoples ideas, opinions and what not, but I don't like it when they try to make me behave like themselves and adopting their opinions.

Believe me I understand. You are right. It is just my experiences. I don't mind someone trying to change my viewpoint on things even if it gets a bit 'heated' as long as the end result as that we remain friendly. I've been on the receiving end of "you are an idiot if you believe that" once too many times. Then again, most of my "outside" contact has been with SF fans rather than with a wide general population on other talk boards so of course I'm limited to who I talk with. But like I said, I just wish that people who think they are tolerant would remember to remain tolerant to those of us who don't believe in what they believe.

Like I said, I enjoy free discussion. If it gets too heated or ugly for me I'll just withdraw from the talk (at least most of the time). I see a whole lot of ugliness with fans who dislike a certain version of Star Trek and can't wait to blast those who do like that version. Hey, it happens. I usually ignore them. Don't answer the posts unless I think I can interject with something reasonably intelligent to say but sometimes, as with any group of people, there are those who really don't care what you think. Boards like this are wonderful in that everyone on it is very diversified and we get to learn from each other if we keep open minds.

I agree with the way you handle the pushy people who try to force their beliefs on you (though beliefs come in all forms, not exclusively religious ones). The best way to stop it is to ask politely and if that doesn't work, just stop talking to them as you say you do now. Nothing wrong with that. Some folks don't know when to give up trying to get a message across. I understand their zeal and their passion. When people of other faiths approach me, I don't let it rattle me. Most of the time I'll even listen for comprehension rather than simply to be polite. The nice thing about Star Trek and other science fiction fandoms is that there is so much to discuss without really having to deal directly with our world religions and our world politics (unless there is a direct tie-in through the plot).

 

[LadyNRA]

ABout the topic of whether or not Atheism is a religion, it isn't so much whether it is a religion about the absence of God but how the beholder of the belief lives and practices that belief.

Don't look up the definition of what Atheism is. Look up the definition of what "Religion" is. It a general sense, given the typical "Websters Dictionary" type definition, Atheism is a religion IF the proponents of that belief want to make a big deal of it in their lives.

How many times have we said, "I follow that guy religiously" or "I religiously practice my music every day". If we do anything with great zeal and focus our beliefs on that thing and live out our lives accordingly and speak out for it (even to supoprt a rock bad or some Star Trek "shippping"-- relationship--) we are, in a way being religious about it. So an Atheist who is quite outspoken and reads much material to refute Christianity or any other religion, and so on is in essence being religious about it (though it may not necessarily be a "religion" in the organized sense...and since I have seen websites dedicated to atheists, I suppose it is a religion in a vague sort of way).

And yes, I follow Star Trek religiously.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

To answer the original question: if Christian Harry Potter fans can find a story which glorifies witchcraft and features, as one of its ur-protagonists, a queer old man congruent with their faith, then Christian Trekkies can ignore all the openly secular humanistic content in which stand-ins for God--from Landru to Q--are punctured. There's always that one line in "Who Mourns for Adonais" (another God puncturing outing, btw) and the classic "sun cult" in "Bread and Circuses."

Really, why let warmed-over bronze age mythology stand in the way of escapism? (Um, because the warmed over bronze age mythology is itself escapist and viciously intolerant of anything which threatens the fantasy bubble? But I maybe shouldn't answer my own questions...)

 

[Kegek]

^
It's the Iron Age, actually.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

I'm talking about the ancient myths that fed into it, like the old "shut up and take it, you bitch" favorite, The Book of Job.

 

[Kegek]

^
Granted the significance of Job, but the obviously seminal works of Christianity - i.e., the letters of Paul, the Gospels, the other books in the New Testament - date to the Iron Age.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Right. But the mythology was warmed over by the time Jesus got to it and wrapped himself up in it.

 

[3D Master]

LadyNRA said:
ABout the topic of whether or not Atheism is a religion, it isn't so much whether it is a religion about the absence of God but how the beholder of the belief lives and practices that belief.

Don't look up the definition of what Atheism is. Look up the definition of what "Religion" is. It a general sense, given the typical "Websters Dictionary" type definition, Atheism is a religion IF the proponents of that belief want to make a big deal of it in their lives.

Nope. First of all, again, it's not a belief, it's the LACK of belief. Further, there are a lot more requirements than "making a big deal about it." Let's see if I remember them by head:

1. belief in an unquantifiable supernatural - Atheism fails that requirement.
2. a ritual way of practicing the beliefs common amongst its followers - since there are no beliefs, and most certainly no ritual way of practicing them, hell there's nothing to practice, not a one ritual not even anything common amongst it's followers apart from "we don't believe", Atheism fails that requirement.

In short: Atheism is not a religion. Face it.

 

[Amaris]

Come now, folks, there's no need to be stubborn about the whole thing. Athiests do not believe in God or gods of any kind, Agnostics do not know if God exists (although the general thought is "no, until I see real evidence to the contrary"), and religious folk have their own faiths. There's no reason why we can't live together in peace and simply respect each other.


J.

 

[voggmo]

The next door neighbors are Christians. We sleep well at night. not exactly a place to party, but still tis quiet & peaceful.

& though it is hip to poke fun at them & their values, it is also worth considering the Shinto Buddhists of Japan are if anything even more family values oriented.

There will likely be Christians in the 24th century, so yes I would agree, peaceful cooperation & cooexistence is the best pathway of travel.

 

[Alisium]

Deks said:

BenRoethig said:
I would like to say this. Atheism is a religious belief. It's just the belief that there is no God. Like all others it has no way to be proven or disproven. Those who say it is some kind of scientific fact were obviously sleeping the day the scientific method was taught. Skepticism and science are two different things. They cannot prove God doesn't exist any more than I can prove that he does. There are always going to be people who believe that they are completely right simply cannot stand that anyone believes different from them. They are extremists. Their behavior says more about themselves than it does their beliefs. Intolerant people would be intolerant no matter what beliefs they were brought up to hold.

Of course this is merely YOUR opinion and not the one everyone shares.
Atheism is a LACK of belief.
Get the dictionary if you will or check Wikipedia for reference if you must.
To think that humans HAVE to believe in 'something' or 'anything at all, otherwise we wouldn't exist' ... is a faulty assumption that stems from a religious point of view (a fairly biased point of view I might add).

This is not a thread about the existence of God, I agree, but the discussions we have on these boards often veer off track.
In this instance though it hasn't gone that much off since it's still in the same general area.
I was merely giving my own response to the person I quoted.

And to my recollection, scientists found no proof for existence of god.
I prefer to rely on common sense instead of blindly accepting what someone tells me about death or what might happen after it.

Funny thing is, we know very little, if anything really about life itself, and there are people who claim to be experts on death itself and 'know' what is happening after we die ?
Begging your pardon but that sounds a bit arrogant from my perspective and highly presumptuous.

I think what you are describing is closer to agnosticism.

Atheism rejects theism.

 

[Alisium]

voggmo said:
The next door neighbors are Christians. We sleep well at night. not exactly a place to party, but still tis quiet & peaceful.

& though it is hip to poke fun at them & their values, it is also worth considering the Shinto Buddhists of Japan are if anything even more family values oriented.

There will likely be Christians in the 24th century, so yes I would agree, peaceful cooperation & cooexistence is the best pathway of travel.

Well said.

I, who was raised Pentecostal woo woo speak in tongues Christian (most decidedly not anymore). I new many a fellow Christian was a Trekkie/er. Infact, growing up, the only other Trekkies/ers I knew were Christians.

There is enough in Trek for everyone to identify with. So people make Trek their own according to what appeals to them. I like ships and such, my buddy loves the hardcore liberal message, we're both happy.

In the end it comes down to sane people accepting Trek for what it is. Friggin entertainment!

 

[Alisium]

Plum said:
It is scientifically proven there are no gods. But I know many don't believe that. Just saying.

I think you'd find it hard to find any serious scientist willing to make that claim outright. Most have a hard time saying anything is proven or not. Usually it's given to the ambiguous realm of supported or unsupported.

I remember, during one of my engineering classes our instructor handed us out a paper that the scientific community wrote up as guidlines for other scientist, like Michiu Kaku who began to delve so deep into quantum physics they flrited with the God question.

Basically, it told them to knock that crap off. It's dogmatic. I don't myself belive in god, nor do I think that our current science has all the answers either. If we did, science would stop.

The end.

Since we don't, it will keep evolving and so will those set in stone contemporary world views.

Therefore,

I am agnostic.