Christianity and Star Trek

[3D Master]

Kegek said:

3D Master said:
Actually, taking those sentences literally, would mean that The One can't be a god, because he just said mankind had no need of any.

He said mankind had no need for gods, plural. 'We find'the one' (one of the things referred to) 'sufficient'. Basic rejection of polytheism in favour of monoaltrism and/or monotheism.

You did understand LITERAL don't you? Go back up, read my post quoted above, read it, read it again, and understand. If you still don't get it, let me clarify:

If you don't need gods, you don't need gods, and that also means, you don't need one god, you need no gods at all. Which, taking that sentence to the utmost, and above, literal, means that "the one" can't be a god, whoever or whatever "the one" is then.

Deks said:

What kind of nonsense is that? I'm an Atheist and I not once tried to remove "god" or "jesus" from my cursing and other figures of speech. Language doesn't work that way. In fact, it would be the believers that would try to remove it, exactly because it's so bad to do so in god's eyes. Me, dude doesn't exist, so I couldn't care less.

Calm down, would you ?
The thing is I meant that one in the manner that usage of religiously based words and curses irked me when I heard it spoken by the characters in the show.
What was the purpose exactly ?
Why would a person that does not hold any beliefs in theism and belongs to a society that moved beyond such things centuries ago (from their perspective) use theistic words and religiously based insults 360 years from now ?

In earlier seasons of TNG, they were rarely (if ever) using that kind of language ... characters were less presumptuous, used neutral words, and later on it became common practice to reverse everything around.

Personally I eliminated religiously inclined words from my own vocabulary (meditation comes in handy you know).
Granted that not everyone are the same, but personal experience showed me it's the religious majority who curse for the most part (also have lowered emotional control, although there are plenty of atheists who will do that as well) using religiously inclined words in their insults, are presumptuous, often hypocritical and corrupt (not all granted, but a good portion is).
I'm not making this one up.
You think that religious people are the ones who should be eliminating usage of their theistic deities names and what not in curses (along with curses themselves), plus have a better emotional control than most ?
I agree, but I have yet to see a large number of religious people display such a behavior.

I also know certain words became part of this society culture, but on Trek, it just irks me because first the characters are showed to have moved beyond such things, and the next thing you know, they revert to it because the writers wanted to make the characters more 'real' and closer to current day humans.
They were just fine to begin with.
And if the concept of humanity being beyond numerous things that we know today was one of the main subjects in the show, then they could have stick with it IMHO.

Ok ... I may have over glorified position of religion in Trek a little, but over the years I got the impression the writers just wanted to introduce more and more of it to make the show 'closer to reality'.
Ds9 comes to mind.

And no ... an atheist would NOT acknowledge the existence of Christian god (or any other) because a definition of atheism is the absence of belief in deities.

As for Christians liking Trek ...
Well, there's nothing strange about it.
Plenty of people like Trek after all.
It's fiction after all.

Oh, my god. So there's one of you people on my side of the fence as well. Bad, bad word! :shakes head:

 

[Kegek]

3D Master said:
You did understand LITERAL don't you?

Yes. I also understood your post. However, I think my reading is the more accurate literal one, as to refer to 'the one something' after having given a noun in that context usually refers to that noun.

Oh, and religious cursing has more significance for Christians and other faiths because it's blasphemy: Expressing outrage, usually sinful outrage, toward one's god(s). There are plenty of phrases of this kind which are no longer used at all, such as 'by God's teeth'. (That's kind of esoteric as it's implying God has literal teeth, and thus is taking his name and insulting the concept of God.) The curses have been secularised to the point they have little meaning, however.

Many, many words have been secularised, including secular itself - which originally referred to a more worldly clergy. Cleric and clerical refered to the bureaucratic office clergymen held in medieval europe as only they could read and write, etc. etc. It might be easy to expugne curses from the language, but general Christian terminology's a bit harder...

Though, to be fair, Christianity has plenty of pagan imagery and terminology imbedded in itself as well: Hell, from the Norse afterlife, is a good example.

 

[3D Master]

Kegek said:

3D Master said:
You did understand LITERAL don't you?

Yes. I also understood your post. However, I think my reading is the more accurate literal one, as to refer to 'the one something' after having given a noun in that context usually refers to that noun.

:sighs: The more accurate, does not equal the more literal. The more literal is the one without any type of interpretation, taking the sentences literally. Yours, is with interpretation.

 

[HotConflict]

This is a post about Islam and Star Trek.
I will be doing a special Start Trek Podcast of my radio show today. We will be discussing Islam and Star Trek. I will be analyzing the original episode, Specter of the Gun

link removed

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Please don't advertise here.

Thank You

 

[LadyNRA]

I tend to agree with those who feel that all religions in the Trek verse should see a certain amount of fairness bestowed upon them. Problem is that quite a few trek episodes either ignore the earth religions altogether or use alien religions an analogies to what exists here today.

as for Christians as fans and fanfic writers and viewers and convention participants etc, I say the more the merrier. I enjoy meeting people from different backgrounds. As long as discussions are kept civil (ie. no name calling), it doesn't bother me one bit. I do fanfic. I don't usually insert my religious beliefs into my stories...though I do love redemption stories in general. I'm content to read fanfic of most types (though never got into slash fic). I'll go to conventions to enjoy the fans and their company without once mentioning my religious preferences unless it comes up. On the other hand, if someone is going to blast my faith (because they don't know where I stand), I'll politely ask them to be nice or just walk away.

J. Allen said it wonderfully, above. I'm a devout Christian. And also have been a fan of science fiction over the last 40 years. To me, these two loves aren't necessarily opposites of each other. We are blessed with wonderful imaginations (most of us anyway), and being curious about the future or the existence of other species isn't a terrible thing. I've heard pastors talk about liking Star Trek. I know a whole group of Christian science fiction fans. We all love it for various reasons but we still enjoy watching it and discussing it with other fans.

In fact, with my years and years of writing to other fans (even before internet days), I have discovered that those who identify themselves as "strongly liberal" or "atheist" (AND science fiction fans) are gonna be far more intolerant toward me than I would ever be to them. Given their views of Christians, it tends to make me smirk or shrug. Go Figure.

 

[CaptainStoner]

Alidar Jarok said:
Please don't advertise here.

Thank You

They advertised the TOS episode showing in theaters, didn't they? What's the problem? Was the link not related to the podcast described, Islam and Trek? Isn't that the kind of thing you want to advertise here?
I also see authors posting on the forum, are you going to tell them not to mention their books, and ban links to their websites?
Please explain -

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I'll discuss this by PM

 

[3D Master]

CaptainStoner said:

Alidar Jarok said:
Please don't advertise here.

Thank You

They advertised the TOS episode showing in theaters, didn't they? What's the problem? Was the link not related to the podcast described, Islam and Trek? Isn't that the kind of thing you want to advertise here?
I also see authors posting on the forum, are you going to tell them not to mention their books, and ban links to their websites?
Please explain -

There was no Trek there at all.

 

[Deks]

LadyNRA said:
In fact, with my years and years of writing to other fans (even before internet days), I have discovered that those who identify themselves as "strongly liberal" or "atheist" (AND science fiction fans) are gonna be far more intolerant toward me than I would ever be to them. Given their views of Christians, it tends to make me smirk or shrug. Go Figure.

I'm sorry you had such experiences.
For example I am an Atheist and I have no problem with religiously inclined people if we generally get along.
I have a best friend who is a Christian, and she would be the most ideal 'example/role model' for other Christians in my own opinion.
She is very open minded, tolerant, we can talk about a variety of issues without censorship of any kind.
And even though we disagree on certain things, those are just our personal opinions and we present them to each other like that.
But we hardly try to convince each other that any one of us is 'right' or 'wrong'.
I had most problems with people who are religious and conservative.
With those I was unable to find common ground despite the fact I accepted their opinions as their own but didn't adopt them as my own.
They would simply try to convince me I am wrong on numerous accounts (in thought pattern and actions) instead of presenting their opinions as their own without trying to force me to see them as being correct.

From my own experience, a lot (but not all) religiously inclined individuals have tried to change my mind to be more like them because they thought I was in the 'wrong'.
I distanced myself from such people because I may be open to hearing out other peoples ideas, opinions and what not, but I don't like it when they try to make me behave like themselves and adopting their opinions.

 

[BenRoethig]

I would like to say this. Atheism is a religious belief. It's just the belief that there is no God. Like all others it has no way to be proven or disproven. Those who say it is some kind of scientific fact were obviously sleeping the day the scientific method was taught. Skepticism and science are two different things. They cannot prove God doesn't exist any more than I can prove that he does. There are always going to be people who believe that they are completely right simply cannot stand that anyone believes different from them. They are extremists. Their behavior says more about themselves than it does their beliefs. Intolerant people would be intolerant no matter what beliefs they were brought up to hold.

 

[Plum]

It is scientifically proven there are no gods. But I know many don't believe that. Just saying.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Once again, this isn't the place to debate the existence of God.

 

[Deks]

BenRoethig said:
I would like to say this. Atheism is a religious belief. It's just the belief that there is no God. Like all others it has no way to be proven or disproven. Those who say it is some kind of scientific fact were obviously sleeping the day the scientific method was taught. Skepticism and science are two different things. They cannot prove God doesn't exist any more than I can prove that he does. There are always going to be people who believe that they are completely right simply cannot stand that anyone believes different from them. They are extremists. Their behavior says more about themselves than it does their beliefs. Intolerant people would be intolerant no matter what beliefs they were brought up to hold.

Of course this is merely YOUR opinion and not the one everyone shares.
Atheism is a LACK of belief.
Get the dictionary if you will or check Wikipedia for reference if you must.
To think that humans HAVE to believe in 'something' or 'anything at all, otherwise we wouldn't exist' ... is a faulty assumption that stems from a religious point of view (a fairly biased point of view I might add).

This is not a thread about the existence of God, I agree, but the discussions we have on these boards often veer off track.
In this instance though it hasn't gone that much off since it's still in the same general area.
I was merely giving my own response to the person I quoted.

And to my recollection, scientists found no proof for existence of god.
I prefer to rely on common sense instead of blindly accepting what someone tells me about death or what might happen after it.

Funny thing is, we know very little, if anything really about life itself, and there are people who claim to be experts on death itself and 'know' what is happening after we die ?
Begging your pardon but that sounds a bit arrogant from my perspective and highly presumptuous.

 

[-Brett-]

BenRoethig said:
I would like to say this. Atheism is a religious belief.

Christians do seem to like perpetuating this lie. Does the idea of someone without a religion scare you that much?

Be honest with yourself about why you don't believe in Thor, Ra, and Zeus and you'll understand why atheists don't believe in your god.

 

[Daedalus12]

Chuckling said:
In fear and trembling I go where Angels fear to tread...

I've been asked to write an article about whether or not Christians (of any denomination) can or should be Trekkies/Trekkers.

You aren't really going to writean article aren't you?

 

[3D Master]

BenRoethig said:
I would like to say this. Atheism is a religious belief. It's just the belief that there is no God.

No, it is not. Atheism is the LACK OF religion and the LACK OFF belief.

Are you as a Christian or whatever, in the religion of "Zeus does not exist?"

 

[Stardate]

I think Christianity influence are present in Star Trek, specially humanism aspect of Christianity.
Why is this question always asked and the other 2 Abrahamic religion is forgotten. Let face when post like this appearers, we are going hear from atheistic, agnostics and others questioning the existence of God or Jesus e.c.c. Rightly so in my opinion but why does Islam and Judaism always get a free pass when those people are criticizing Christianity because those 3 religion all believe in same deity..

 

[BenRoethig]

-Brett- said:

BenRoethig said:
I would like to say this. Atheism is a religious belief.

Christians do seem to like perpetuating this lie. Does the idea of someone without a religion scare you that much?

Be honest with yourself about why you don't believe in Thor, Ra, and Zeus and you'll understand why atheists don't believe in your god.

No it doesn't, but apparently the idea of someone having religion beliefs does scare you or just the truth that atheism isn't anymore based in fact than any other belief. It's just what you do or don't choose to believe.

 

[3D Master]

BenRoethig said:

-Brett- said:

BenRoethig said:
I would like to say this. Atheism is a religious belief.

Christians do seem to like perpetuating this lie. Does the idea of someone without a religion scare you that much?

Be honest with yourself about why you don't believe in Thor, Ra, and Zeus and you'll understand why atheists don't believe in your god.

No it doesn't, but apparently the idea of someone having religion beliefs does scare you or just the truth that atheism isn't anymore based in fact than any other belief. It's just what you do or don't choose to believe.

Again, it's not a belief, it's the lack of belief. And a lot more facts support Atheism than any form of Theism.