As we have mentioned before in countless other threads. It's good insurance for survival of the species should something happen here on earth. Plus, it's in our nature to expand. Space, being really big, gives us plenty of room to do that.
China launches new space station module.
- Thread starter Yminale
- Start date
As we have mentioned before in countless other threads. It's good insurance for survival of the species should something happen here on earth. Plus, it's in our nature to expand. Space, being really big, gives us plenty of room to do that.
Not to mention that we are slowly running out of space here on earth. Given how long it would take to develop and deploy even a scaled down O'Neill Cylinder now is not too early a time to begin.
I don't think we're running out of space. We might be over-exploiting resources but if it came to living in a tin can in space or colonising one of the vast wildernesses left on Earth, I know which is cheaper and more inviting for would-be colonisers. For instance, a big shower of meteors hits Earth and you get a pretty light display in the atmos. The same thing happens to a tin can in space and it's sayonara tin can. I live in a country which had hundreds of thousands of people living in what is now almost completely empty land. That land isn't depleted - all the resources which were there to support those people are still there.
To properly support a person a lot more space is required than just where they live. I doubt I need to expand any on this point as it is pretty self evident. And we do still have the room (resources for the population increases coming in the near future). But a project like this would take 50-100 years to complete on the optimistic side. So we have to actually not only consider the present and near present, but the future as well. And also remember that science has almost doubled life expectancy in the last 100 years and those advances are continuing as well.
Of course modern scientific advances have allowed us to increase farming to such a degree that we can support the billions of people that live here and I have no doubt that new future developments will allow us to extend further, but it is fairly ignorant and short sighted to think that will continue forever. And it is even more foolish to continue to have all our eggs in one basket when we do have the ability to push on to new horizons.
You make the colonies self-supporting. You don't want the expense of continually resupplying them from the ground as happens with the ISS.
But how do you make the colonies self-supporting? We are nowhere near that possibility and I don't know how far are we exactly. You'd have to invent viable ways to support a biosphere and rebuild most of our industry to meet the technological needs of the colony. And if you want to do it with extra-terrestrial materials you'd be in big trouble because you'd have to reinvent a lot of the technology and find new materials. I feel we would sooner have cheap space travel allowing for a colony trading with Earth (and the other colonies) than a real self-sustaining colony.
Oh, I think you'll find that people have done a substantial amount of research into making an off-world colony self sustainable. I can't quote you chapter and verse on the relevant references as it's not my field, but there are others around this board who probably can.
As time goes on, the prospect becomes ever more feasible with developments such as the local manufacture of objects using 3D printing. Trade is more of a problem as it would necessarily be restricted to commodities of sufficient scarcity and value to make transporting them between gravity wells profitable. There's plenty of methane on Titan but it's probably not economically viable (nor ecologically sound) to ship it to Earth. Helium-3 from the Moon - perhaps when we have developed a fusion technology capable of utilising it. What Mars has to offer as commodities apart from rust and probably quite a lot of water ice I'm not certain. We have plenty of both on Earth.
As time goes on, the prospect becomes ever more feasible with developments such as the local manufacture of objects using 3D printing. Trade is more of a problem as it would necessarily be restricted to commodities of sufficient scarcity and value to make transporting them between gravity wells profitable. There's plenty of methane on Titan but it's probably not economically viable (nor ecologically sound) to ship it to Earth. Helium-3 from the Moon - perhaps when we have developed a fusion technology capable of utilising it. What Mars has to offer as commodities apart from rust and probably quite a lot of water ice I'm not certain. We have plenty of both on Earth.
Agriculture is threatened by the increasing drain on our fresh water supplies which is dwindling. In the Midwest, in some areas, the Ogallala Aquifer has dropped from 250 feet to 80 feet, and in a city in Texas, the Aquifer is now at 50 feet and the city was abandoned.
Well all I did was show you that you were wrong.
As to the second point, it is about creating a new ecosystem, which = a new resource. Yes, this would be difficult that is self evident, but it is something we are capable of doing over the long haul. Not doing it means keeping something as precious as the life of our species in a single place when we have the power to change that. Given how expanding and exploring is an evolutionary trait written into our make up I believe it is inevitable that we will do things like this assuming society continues long enough to do it.
Where did you show me I was wrong? Sorry I must have missed that. Pretty picture though. Very sci fi.
Agriculture in a semi-desert environment is being threatened by the wilful abuse of a huge water resource over a long period of time. Let's not beat about the bush here. To put this into perspective, the fertile plains of the DRC could feed the whole of Africa and the USA if they weren't squandering every resource they possess by killing each other.
Agriculture in a semi-desert environment is being threatened by the wilful abuse of a huge water resource over a long period of time. Let's not beat about the bush here. To put this into perspective, the fertile plains of the DRC could feed the whole of Africa and the USA if they weren't squandering every resource they possess by killing each other.
Humans are just plain stupid, let's face it.
It will be incredibly difficult for the space colony to sustain itself without the import, at least at first. But as you say, things like helium harvesting in space might be viable pretty soon, and then they can drive developments towards full self-sustaining capability.
Re: Chinal launches new space station module.
A visionary thought that they may have, I couldn't say. However, the country has such gross disparity of wealth and social infrastructure (such as electricity, water, medicine, housing) that the cost of such a space program could cost them more than they are willing or able to pay. I agree that this is more about making the 21'st century the Chinese century than actual science and exploration. That has been a criticism of the moon landings way back when. But, taken all in all, better an international pissing contest that advances human understanding of the universe, develops new technologies, and increases our long term survival by greater understanding of this and other worlds in the cosmos than one of international belligerence.
A visionary thought that they may have, I couldn't say. However, the country has such gross disparity of wealth and social infrastructure (such as electricity, water, medicine, housing) that the cost of such a space program could cost them more than they are willing or able to pay. I agree that this is more about making the 21'st century the Chinese century than actual science and exploration. That has been a criticism of the moon landings way back when. But, taken all in all, better an international pissing contest that advances human understanding of the universe, develops new technologies, and increases our long term survival by greater understanding of this and other worlds in the cosmos than one of international belligerence.
Such a disparity in living conditions also existed in the US during the 1960's and still exists even now. Some might say it would be better to spend the money on raising the standards of one's population rather than on weapons of mass destruction or firing phallic rockets to inseminate the cosmos. However, while I disapprove of the militaristic S&M fetish of the major world powers, I don't see the harm in wanting to get our ass to Mars.
Trident replacement...
If we spent half as much on space exploration as we spent on the invasion of Iraq we'd be on our second Mars colony by now.
Back on the Original Topic..
This station is similar to some early Soviet "Almaz" (Salyut 3 and 5) space stations..
these were 'man tended' and not designed for extended crew stays rather like the USAF's MOL program..
http://www.astronautix.com/project/almaz.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manned_Orbiting_Laboratory
Skylab was HUGE compared to the Salyuts ..
it rivaled Mir in internal volume... and was the original Shuttle's orbital destination..
Too bad it was allowed to de-orbit due to lack of funds for a dockable booster to stabilize it's orbit..
This looks more like a "trashcan" space station, A quick and dirty way to get a VERY small station into orbit quickly...
This station is similar to some early Soviet "Almaz" (Salyut 3 and 5) space stations..
these were 'man tended' and not designed for extended crew stays rather like the USAF's MOL program..
http://www.astronautix.com/project/almaz.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manned_Orbiting_Laboratory
Skylab was HUGE compared to the Salyuts ..
it rivaled Mir in internal volume... and was the original Shuttle's orbital destination..
Too bad it was allowed to de-orbit due to lack of funds for a dockable booster to stabilize it's orbit..
This looks more like a "trashcan" space station, A quick and dirty way to get a VERY small station into orbit quickly...
