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"Children of Time" and “Before and After” - Same Timeline?

WarpTenLizard

Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
This post concerns two episodes that feature an alternate timeline, that in the end was erased.

"Chlidren of Time" - Season 5 of "Deep Space Nine," aired 1997; canonically, this timeline was erased in the year 2373.

"Before and After" - Season 3 of "Voyager." Aired in 1997. The timeline is reset by the end, in the year 2373.

Both these timelines got erased during the same year (both in canon, and meta).

Supposedly, these timelines were created separately, and destroyed separately. But still, in the same year? And not just any year; 2373 was the start of the Dominion War, and the year just before Voyager helped end that war between the Borg and Species 8472.

Both timelines saw the loss of the ship/station's captain, and one or more other significant officer, during this crucial year. In "Children of Time," Sisko and most of his senior staff vanish from their timeframe, just before the Dominion War. In "Before and After," Janeway and B'Elanna die, just months before Voyager would liberate and gain Seven of Nine, and just a few years before B'Elanna would become pregnant with the Kuva'Magh. And of course, they also die right at the start of the "Year of Hell."

First off, how screwed is the galaxy, in either episode's timeline? In "Children of Time," a chunk of key players on the Federation's side of the Dominion War--including the Emissary--are lost, just before the war begins. The odds of the Federation beating the Dominion in this timeline are slim. And remember that at this point in the series, war is already imminent.

As for "Before and After," no Janeway allying with the Borg means the war between the Borg and Species 8472 rages on. And if 8472 wins, they plan to obliterate the entire universe. Also, that cult of Klingons in the Delta Quadrant never gets their messiah.

Now imagine if both of these are actually one timeline. The Dominion rules the Gamma Quadrant, and terrorizes the Alpha and Beta Quadrants; and the Delta Quadrant is being wrecked by the frelling Borg, and 8472. No corner of the galaxy is safe anymore.

And here is, perhaps, the most crucial detail: both timelines were the original timeline, before they were undone. The "Children of Time" colony already existed in the original timeline, via a time loop, and only got erased when "Creepy-Odo" took the chance to stop the loop. In "Before and After," everything and everyone Kes saw on her deathbed was the result of the timeline's natural progression; it only changed when the Doc accidently sent her backwards in time, and she chose to take actions that changed the future.

It was damn lucky for the entire galaxy (or the entire universe maybe!) that Odo and Kes put their personal friends before their future-descendants.

Was it really a coincidence, that in the same year, two devastating outcomes for the galaxy/universe suddenly had a window of time travel to change things, and one individual chose to take that chance? (Mind you, Kes had amnesia in "Before and After," and probably didn't know or much care about the greater politics outside Voyager, during that escapade.)

The most obvious culprit is Annorax (the villain from "Voyager's" two-parter "Year of Hell," who kept altering history). With his timeship, and chess-mastery over the timeline, Annorax could easily have tweaked the timeline to open those "doors" for Kes and Creepy-Odo, and made sure they took them. It might seem odd for Annorax to save Janeway, his enemy; but he may have just been trying to keep her alive long enough to end that war between the Borg and Species 8472; then kill her after she'd served her purpose. Likewise, that time loop over near DS9 had to be broken up, to keep the Dominion from gaining the Alpha Quadrant, and coming for the Krenim Imperium next.

(And yes, I'm totally using this idea for a fanfiction. But it'll be so long before I finally write the stupid thing, that even people that read this thread and then my fic may have forgotten about it by then.)

Anyway....thoughts?
 
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The timelien you described is used in "The Hork-Bajir Chronicles" from the Animorphs book series.
The novel's text is available to read via internet,
just search (link edited)
Storyline elements would appear to begin at an equivalent point in this simile

:|:EDIT:|:
(In response to the moderator action described in the post below,
I would like to forward my acknowledgement, moderational deliberation about
the merits of pirating a book published by scholastic can be had elsewhere --
-- this is literally not a school where you can go to and learn how to read.
I had just presumed that everyone had read this book by at least 5th grade)
 
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The timelien you described is used in "The Hork-Bajir Chronicles" from the Animorphs book series.
The novel's text is available to read via internet,
just search (link edited)
Storyline elements would appear to begin at an equivalent point in this simile

The link you posted appears to be a book piracy site.

We do not allow linking to piracy sites of any kind.

Please don’t do that again.
 
-> (( For future reference that is an improper way to moderate a webforum,
content need not be removed when it doesn't include anything inappropriate.
Just inform the poster that their words were either derailing the thread or that you disagree philosophically with the nature of their typography, there is no reason to modify a post that doesn't hasn't been flagged for inappropriate content. I will plan on discontinuing my discourse on this topic since this type of conversation would just derail the thread. I don't have time for endless moderator wars, in my prior experience this issue has been dealt with and resolved in the past. Don't list forums for public registration if admins are going to invoke pointless moderational post revisions. ))
 
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-> (( For future reference that is an improper way to moderate a webforum,
content need not be removed when it doesn't include anything inappropriate.
Just inform the poster that their words were either derailing the thread or that you disagree philosophically with the nature of their typography, there is no reason to modify a post that doesn't hasn't been flagged for inappropriate content. I will plan on discontinuing my discourse on this topic since this type of conversation would just derail the thread. I don't have time for endless moderator wars, in my prior experience this issue has been dealt with and resolved in the past. Don't list forums for public registration if admins are going to invoke pointless moderational post revisions. ))

Okay, lots to unpack here.

First of all, moderating this forum is my job. One I’ve been doing for the better part of 19 years. I know the board. I know the culture. And I know the posting rules.

Second your post was flagged as inappropriate. It was reviewed by staff and determined to be against our rules.

Third, there’s no reason to make a dramatic spectacle out of a minor thing. You did something we don’t allow, I fixed it and informed you. You didn’t get a warning, you didn’t get banned. So, drop the persecution complex.

Fourth, we don’t allow arguing about moderator actions to derail threads. I’m not going to officially warn you this time, but I will in the future if necessary. If you disagree with a moderator action you can use PM. In this case it’s pretty straightforward.

I would suggest you familiarize yourself with the posting rules here (pinned at the top of this forum) and try to learn the culture around here before you start making demands and telling us how things should work.
 
Michael-Jackson-Popcorn-Gif.gif
 
The link you posted appears to be a book piracy site.

We do not allow linking to piracy sites of any kind.

Please don’t do that again.

Hi, I'm sorry to bother you, but since you're here...may I request that the title of this thread be changed? My finger brushed a button before I could finish typing the thread's title. I'd like it to be: "Children of Time" and "Before and After" - Same Timeline?

I tried to ask another mod, but I don't know if my message went through to them.
 
Hi, I'm sorry to bother you, but since you're here...may I request that the title of this thread be changed? My finger brushed a button before I could finish typing the thread's title. I'd like it to be: "Children of Time" and "Before and After" - Same Timeline?

I tried to ask another mod, but I don't know if my message went through to them.

Done.

EE06F9D8-E87A-4B6D-AF8B-35A1E21B51ED.jpeg
 
Where does the popcorn go after he eats it? This is reminding me of what really confuses me about the snake that eats his own tail, how does he shit?
I remember when Captain Crunch got busted by the vice squad and was caught eating his own cereal off the stomach of one of the Mayflower Madam's women, and had to do all that community service while King Vitamin tried to make a move on his business. This was nothing like that. Uh I got nothing.

Buy yeah, to get back to the original point. I would say they are seperate tangental timelines, the ones that seem to just sort of flutter out, not major ones that stay parallel to "Prime" like Kelvin and Mirror do.
 
King Vitaman and Cap'n Crunch used to exist in the same timeline but that all changed when temporal agents arrived in 1980s America looking for the Quaker factory.
 
[...]"The Hork-Bajir Chronicles" from the Animorphs book series. [...] I had just presumed that everyone had read this book by at least 5th grade)
Wait...you presume that everyone has read YA 11–13 Animorphs books? And a specific one out of over 50, the first of which didn't hit the market until 1996? Practically no one 40+ is going to have had any cause to read these.
 
...^^^...^^^...^^^...^^^...
I'm well-aware that if you had already passed 5th grade,

when the book was released, then it would not have been required reading,
for your 5th grade class.


side note at mods i am sorry this is my 3rd account
something has to be done since i cannot use this forum
while dealing with the amount of accounts here that
are making inappropriate remarks
if the inapparopriate remarks continue this account will
become unuseable i am sorry and half the mods are being respectful
some of the other comments are unacceptable on this forum
i am ok if i am banned since this is my 3rd account
except i am not able to deal with the other accounts or mods
that are exhibiting weird behavior toward me since admins
have to decide either ban or delete the weird comments
to cite rules you are looking at a 3rd account except
compare to weird posts that look like literally criminal
criminal law takes precedent over forum rules
and some of the comments are against the law
we can discuss this in the moderator section if need
except i won't point out what posts are being referred to
for the sake of time they should be clear what posts appear to be crime
i am not posting this b/c of attention seeking or persecution complex
or w/e u are refering to just need to know should i get banned
or is there another way to deal with the behavior that i am intolerable
 
Wait...you presume that everyone has read YA 11–13 Animorphs books? And a specific one out of over 50, the first of which didn't hit the market until 1996? Practically no one 40+ is going to have had any cause to read these.
Yeah, it's not required reading nor have I heard of it since I was in the 5th grade, which was a while ago. Also, few of the kids I work with reference it.
 
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