characters or character development that went nowhere

[stj]

Character development in the sense that a favorite character vicariously fulfills viewer fantasies---a secret birth, special destiny, deciding the fate of the universe, etc.---were pretty much limited to DS9. That's why it's the board favorite, I think.

Character development in the sense of understanding what makes them tick, what they would do, what they want out of life was decent for lots of main characters. Most regulars had a distinctive voice or presence.

But there were exceptions. It was never quite believable that Kes would spend her short life on Voyager. That's why she was not as good a character as Kim or Neelix, and was the one to go if they wanted to ax someone. Paris and Torres were also weak characters. It was never clear why Paris was estranged from his father nor how he was such a rogue. It was never clear why Torres would ever waste a minute wanting to be a Klingon or why she didn't resent humans since her father dumped her. Seven was shizophrenicj---one episode she valued aspects of Borghood, the next she whimpered about being Borg.

What most people seem to mean by not going anywhere first of all means not starring in a fantasy. People who liked Kes wanted her to save the ship or torture someone or whatever.

 

[exodus]

It was never clear why Paris was estranged from his father nor how he was such a rogue.

His father was a very highly respected man in Starfleet, Tom was a fuck up & failure at everything he did. Tom was an embassament to his father.

 

[blakbyrd]

Kurn - did not like what that DS9 show did to his character.

Agreed.

 

[stj]

Paris was not just a great pilot, but a part-time medic, part-time novelist, designer of the Delta Flyer, the man who broke the Warp 10 barrier, the guy who found the flaw in the transwarp engine in Timeless, the wise sould counseling EMH on successful family life in Real Life and on authorial ethics in Author, Author! And I could add more. I got confused and didn't remember that Paris was a failure.

 

[JoeZhang]

and also, while we were told he was a rogue, his behaviour never really indicated that. He was just another "great at pretty much anything, cool in a crisis officer of the fleet".

 

[Anwar]

Paris was not just a great pilot, but a part-time medic, part-time novelist, designer of the Delta Flyer, the man who broke the Warp 10 barrier, the guy who found the flaw in the transwarp engine in Timeless, the wise sould counseling EMH on successful family life in Real Life and on authorial ethics in Author, Author! And I could add more. I got confused and didn't remember that Paris was a failure.

Yeah, but that didn't happen until he was on VOY lost in the DQ. Before that he was just an ex-Starfleet officer who got some people killed because of his arrogance (or whatever) and then was a Maquis merc who fought only for money. Not exactly someone to be proud of.

Then they dropped that because 1) UPN and Jeri Taylor wanted the chars to be more light-hearted and less darker/edgier
and
2) Who would want to watch a char who really can't do anything right?

 

[exodus]

Paris was not just a great pilot, but a part-time medic, part-time novelist, designer of the Delta Flyer, the man who broke the Warp 10 barrier, the guy who found the flaw in the transwarp engine in Timeless, the wise sould counseling EMH on successful family life in Real Life and on authorial ethics in Author, Author! And I could add more. I got confused and didn't remember that Paris was a failure.

Yeah, but that didn't happen until he was on VOY lost in the DQ. Before that he was just an ex-Starfleet officer who got some people killed because of his arrogance (or whatever) and then was a Maquis merc who fought only for money. Not exactly someone to be proud of.

Exactly.

On his first mission with the Maquis, he failed and got caught. He abandon Starfleet and turned traitor again by turning in Chakotay.

 

[JoeZhang]

Paris was not just a great pilot, but a part-time medic, part-time novelist, designer of the Delta Flyer, the man who broke the Warp 10 barrier, the guy who found the flaw in the transwarp engine in Timeless, the wise sould counseling EMH on successful family life in Real Life and on authorial ethics in Author, Author! And I could add more. I got confused and didn't remember that Paris was a failure.

Yeah, but that didn't happen until he was on VOY lost in the DQ. Before that he was just an ex-Starfleet officer who got some people killed because of his arrogance (or whatever) and then was a Maquis merc who fought only for money. Not exactly someone to be proud of.

Exactly.

On his first mission with the Maquis, he failed and got caught. He abandon Starfleet and turned traitor again by turning in Chakotay.

But this is TV don't tell me those things show me, besides 40 minutes of telly in the first episode, we never really see any element of his character that suggest he's anything more that a bland slightly creepy officer.

 

[Anwar]

Like I said before Jeri Taylor and UPN didn't want a misfit crew, they wanted them to all get along and for them all to be immediately redeemable chars.

This is also why Janeway could never be wrong or make anything less than a perfect choice accepted by everyone: Taylor used her as a Mary-Sue.

 

[exodus]

Yeah, but that didn't happen until he was on VOY lost in the DQ. Before that he was just an ex-Starfleet officer who got some people killed because of his arrogance (or whatever) and then was a Maquis merc who fought only for money. Not exactly someone to be proud of.

Exactly.

On his first mission with the Maquis, he failed and got caught. He abandon Starfleet and turned traitor again by turning in Chakotay.

But this is TV don't tell me those things show me, besides 40 minutes of telly in the first episode, we never really see any element of his character that suggest he's anything more that a bland slightly creepy officer.

What do you mean?

Remember S2 when Janeway had Tom leave Voyager to infiltrate the Kazon? Remember how he was talking back to Chakotay. Nobody blinked an eye at his behavior because of his past. Tom has no discipline, notice how he talks out of line on the bridge.

 

[Anwar]

Apparently no one thinks its possible anymore for there to be a Starship crew where every single last member secretly (or openly) hates and wants to kill each other, ala nuBSG.

 

[exodus]

Apparently no one thinks its possible anymore for there to be a Starship crew where every single last member secretly (or openly) hates and wants to kill each other, ala nuBSG.

But Starfleet is a space age form of "military", wouldn't that be a form of insubordination?

 

[stj]

I remember not believing it. Tom's character redemption was complete by the end of Caretaker.

As for not doing anything right, the well know examples of Dr. Zachary Smith and his modern version, Dr. Gaius Baltar, prove there is a market for total screwups. From what I remember of DS9 the whole Ferengi race is evidence of this as well.

And Janeway was not a Mary Sue. Kes was a Mary Sue, and Tom Paris was a Gary Stu. They even had the funny names!

(Strictly speaking, of course, they are neither. But both are incredibly idealized characters who essentially do no wrong, whose sufferings are of incredible interest, who are the coolest and best looking and most competent and wisest, etc.)

 

[C.E. Evans]

Mayweather: As originally written, he was "Lieutenant Joseph Mayweather", a slightly older character who was the most experienced space traveler on the ship, and perhaps someone who would be a close advisor to Captain Archer. But after casting a younger actor for the role and deciding that T'Pol should be the most experienced space traveler, Mayweather pretty much had nothing left to do but sit at the helm and say "Yes, sir" all the time. Mayweather apparently was more of a character off-camera...

 

[Alidar Jarok]

One thing I noticed was that Travis seemed to at least work with Trip in engineering every so often in the first season. I'm not sure when he stopped doing that, but he definitely had stopped by the third season (where, once again, he was replaced by T'Pol, who worked with Trip regularly in the final two seasons, both for mission-oriented reasons and for reasons that Travis probably wouldn't be helpful with ).

 

[Therin of Andor]

But since they were bringing Seven onboard they had to drop someone from the list and figure Kes. There was also that drug problem rumor to add to her departure.

More embarrassing that that, Jennifer Lien, off-camera, is extraordinarily shy. Great actress, but she needs the power of the script and director behind her.

She gave some truly dreadful Star Trek convention appearances, both US and international - during her tenure with the show, and the angry feedback of disgruntled fans must have had some backlash. No wonder the drugs rumours were so rampant. She was extremely phased out, vacant and monosyllabic in several (very expensive) overseas appearances. Why keep doing conventions if you're that uncomfortable in public?

 

[Cyke101]

Uhura - always regretted that she never really got 'her own' episode (Sulu, Scotty, or Chekov usually got most of the supporting cast spotlight).

Heck, I got pretty miffed when I realized that Uhura had basically been written out of 90% of Star Trek III.

 

[Anwar]

As for not doing anything right, the well know examples of Dr. Zachary Smith and his modern version, Dr. Gaius Baltar, prove there is a market for total screwups. From what I remember of DS9 the whole Ferengi race is evidence of this as well.

Seeing how those guys are borderline villains (or outright villains) and not regular cast members I'd say that may be why they're tolerated more for being screwups.

Imagine if say, Lee could never do anything right, would he be tolerated?

 

[exodus]

But since they were bringing Seven onboard they had to drop someone from the list and figure Kes. There was also that drug problem rumor to add to her departure.

More embarrassing that that, Jennifer Lien, off-camera, is extraordinarily shy. Great actress, but she needs the power of the script and director behind her.

She gave some truly dreadful Star Trek convention appearances, both US and international - during her tenure with the show, and the angry feedback of disgruntled fans must have had some backlash. No wonder the drugs rumours were so rampant. She was extremely phased out, vacant and monosyllabic in several (very expensive) overseas appearances. Why keep doing conventions if you're that uncomfortable in public?

I think the actors are under contract to do them. I know some like Brent Spiner has gotten out of doing so many due to his "fear" of over zealous fans.

 

[stj]

But Lee, like all the characters on BSG except Adama, is a screwup. Just not a total screwup like Baltar, who so far as I know has never successfully done anythingbut backshoot a guy. Tigh, who is almost completely a screwup, is quite popular. Most of their screwups are due to acting out, due to lack of emotional maturity. Do you really mean being weak and uncool?