Changes that should have been made in Yesterday’s Enterprise

[Vanyel]

I was watching this episode the other day and remembered some of the Nit-Picks in The Nit-Picker’s Guide. Things like:

1. Riker, Data, LaForge and Tasha would probably be assigned to other ships. Riker, Data and LaForge most likely being captains.

2. The Enterprise D should be different, perhaps not so big, or at least with more weapon emplacements. Maybe double phaser strips on the ventral and dorsal sides of the saucer, and more torpedo tubes. Not talking about an über Enterprise like in All Good Things..., but definitely a ship with more fighting power.

3. Ships probably should travel in pairs or in a small task force. A problem that is also evident during the Dominion War.

4. A ship maybe not so big. Bigger ship, bigger target. Smaller ships should have an advantage in mobility.

5. I’m not a fan of a dark bridge; during battle it should be more lit. That’d prevent people tripping over fallen comrades or debris. It should make it easy on the eyes of the crew too.

6. The big windows in 10 Forward and the conference room, well just big windows period.

7. I was always a fan of what looked like extra shielding for sensitive areas of the ship. In TWoK, when Kirk orders Yellow alert, on a display, you see what looks like an extra layer of protection for the bridge. Having these mini shields around the bridge, engineering, weapons and weapon major power conduits would have made sense.

8. I don’t think the Romulans would stay on the sidelines. They seemed to hate the Klingons more, so they probably would have allied with the Federation knowing that with the defeat of the Klingons, the Federation would not be in a position to oppose their activities. It would be like WWII, The Romulans coming in late in the war and left as the sole power of the quadrant for several years. This, I admit, would probably be a bit too much information to put in a single episode.

9. Wesley would be a bit too young to be on the Enterprise D during a war.

10. The Klingons being able to fight a sustained war despite the events of TUC. However that could too be explained, by the Federation helping them build up their infrastructure as was discussed in TUC.

11. TNG’s biggest problem is magnified here, a lack of chairs for bridge officers.

Well those are my gripes with the episode (as well as some in NPG, maybe more NPG than mine but still problems); otherwise it is a great episode; and it made a better send off for Tasha.

Yes I know there is another Yesterday’s Enterprise thread, but I think this is a separate topic than the other.

 

[Warped9]

What this episode doesn't address is that there could have been other more significant differences between the two timelines or universes than what we saw or were led to believe.

 

[Timo]

Indeed. And that affects the first item here:

1. Riker, Data, LaForge and Tasha would probably be assigned to other ships. Riker, Data and LaForge most likely being captains.

As with all alternate universes/timelines, we should remember that there can be an infinite number of those. It depends on the mechanisms of universe-hopping or timeline-divergence whether some are more probable than others.

The YE universe diverged from the "regular" TNG one back in the 2340s. At that time, the E-D had not yet been built, and most of our heroes had not even begun their Starfleet careers. So, having the E-D built to "peaceful" specs is a bit unlikely - but having all the heroes clustered aboard that ship is not unlikely at all. Or at least no more unlikely than likely. For all we know, in the YE timeline they met for the first time two months before the episode!

Out of an infinite range of combinations, the mechanisms of time travel themselves could favor situations where "nearly similar" timelines interact. Thus, the E-C could have emerged in a future where she met the Yamato-E, or a Pakled transport, or just empty space. But those stories didn't result in an interesting time loop. So we concentrated on the story that did create that time loop. Out of the chaotic infinity of possibilities, that story would be the "strange attractor".

3. Ships probably should travel in pairs or in a small task force. A problem that is also evident during the Dominion War.

OTOH, submarines tend to travel alone, because they value their stealth. Starships in the Fed-Klingon war might try to hide from the enemy as well, and flying solo would be a good way to do that.

Also, we don't know what sort of a mission the E had at the time. And of course, the episode just plain wouldn't work if there were more ships and captains involved.

4. A ship maybe not so big. Bigger ship, bigger target. Smaller ships should have an advantage in mobility.

Or a disadvantage. Larger ships were automatically faster in the time of sail, due to facts of physics (which is why "Pirates of the Caribbean" is idiotic in claiming that the Interceptor could be faster than the Dauntless or the Black Pearl). Big could be beautiful in warp physics as well. And there has always been a place for giant ships in the history of warfare.

5. I’m not a fan of a dark bridge; during battle it should be more lit. That’d prevent people tripping over fallen comrades or debris. It should make it easy on the eyes of the crew too.

Ships in WWI/II era movies have their bridges darkened (or red-lit) to provide night vision. Ships in more recent times have their windowless combat centers darkened because that makes it easier to read the displays of the electronic devices.

In space, it's always night; perhaps visual feed of the starfield around the ship is easier to process when your eyes are accustomed to the dark. OTOH, our heroes would probably rely a lot on their displays, even if we seldom see this happen; while brighter than today's displays, they might still benefit from "mood lighting".

8. I don’t think the Romulans would stay on the sidelines. They seemed to hate the Klingons more, so they probably would have allied with the Federation knowing that with the defeat of the Klingons, the Federation would not be in a position to oppose their activities.

Or they could wait until the two have finished killing each other. After all, the Feds have always been their most hated enemy - their Senate floor is decorated with a mosaic of the struggle against Earth!

9. Wesley would be a bit too young to be on the Enterprise D during a war.

How so? If anything, I'd expect Starfleet to start drafting more children in a time of desperate war. It's not as if starship combat requires a lot of muscle.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Unicron]

Re: Changes that should have been made in Yesterday’s Enterp

And it's also possible that the Romulans were still in isolation in this timeline, since the Tomed Incident occurred before the war with the Klingons started. In the normal timeline their re-emergence was due in part to the threat they faced from the Klingon-Federation alliance.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Re: Changes that should have been made in Yesterday’s Enterp

Vanyel said:
I was watching this episode the other day and remembered some of the Nit-Picks in The Nit-Picker’s Guide. Things like:

1. Riker, Data, LaForge and Tasha would probably be assigned to other ships. Riker, Data and LaForge most likely being captains.

I have to defer to the logistics of weekly television. The actors (except Crosby who was a guest star)playing those characters got paid regardless of whether they appear in the episode or not. So, why not use them.

2. The Enterprise D should be different, perhaps not so big, or at least with more weapon emplacements. Maybe double phaser strips on the ventral and dorsal sides of the saucer, and more torpedo tubes. Not talking about an über Enterprise like in All Good Things..., but definitely a ship with more fighting power.

I didn't have a problem with the ships exterior looking the same. Even in the regular universe, the Galaxy-Class has been called the most advance and powerful ship built.

There were probably internal changes that we didn't get to see. Overhead there was a reference to a C-I-C (where if the YE E-D was liken to a battleship, then this would've really been the place Picard would've coordinated the battle).

3. Ships probably should travel in pairs or in a small task force. A problem that is also evident during the Dominion War.

Too bad the budget wasn't there to show a task force. I've always felt that Starfleet should have used an exploration task force for their longer missions. For example, the E-D could be the lead ship with several small scout vessels that explore ahead. When they find something interesting, then the E-D comes in and does the survey.

4. A ship maybe not so big. Bigger ship, bigger target. Smaller ships should have an advantage in mobility.

Not necessarily.

The physics of space doesn't really work like a WW II air fight or as we have seen in Star Wars, Deep Space Nine or Enterprise with ships zipping along like dog fights.

Of course, I'm no physicist, dammit, just a plain old country poster.

5. I’m not a fan of a dark bridge; during battle it should be more lit. That’d prevent people tripping over fallen comrades or debris. It should make it easy on the eyes of the crew too.

As has been mentioned, modern warships have a lower light level so that the panels pop out and are easier to read. TMP also took this approach in many of its bridge scenes, especially while in V'Ger (it was mentioned in the Sackett "making of" book that submarines were the model for this lighting scheme in TMP).

From a television production standpoint, the darker lighting gave the episode a more dramatic, darker tone and helped make the actors stand out even more.

9. Wesley would be a bit too young to be on the Enterprise D during a war.

Wes could've started on the Enterprise as a midshipman and, because war tends to create faster promotions, was made an Ensign.

11. TNG’s biggest problem is magnified here, a lack of chairs for bridge officers.

Modern naval bridges seldom have a lot of chairs. It is common for officers and enlisted rates to stand their entire shift.

 

[Forbin]

Re: Changes that should have been made in Yesterday’s Enterp

Civilian Guinan had no business being aboard a military vessel in time of war.

It's likely 10-forward would not exist on a purely military vessel in time of war. More likely some kind of larger mess hall, and there certainly wouldn't be a bar.

The story would have been much more effective without Guinan. Picard could have figured out that sending the C back might cancel out the war, after his conversation with Garret. This would have made our heroes even more heroic - Picard would have been shown to be smarter and more intuitive, and Tasha would be just as brave knowing she would probably die, without having time-wasting, clumsy, mystical exposition speeches from Miss "I exist outside time" Guinan.

 

[Vic Sixx]

Re: Changes that should have been made in Yesterday’s Enterp

I agree with most of these. But I think they were trying to portray that this was a very close reality with very few if any differences. Although it's hard to understand the Fed losing to the Klingons.

BTW, what's the tomed incident?

 

[Jamee999]

Re: Changes that should have been made in Yesterday’s Enterp

The Tomed Incident started the Romulan Isolation between the TOS Movies and TNG.

 

[Anwar]

Re: Changes that should have been made in Yesterday’s Enterp

In 2311 there was a large battle between the Feds and the Rommies and war seemed imminent. Then they signed the Treaty of Algeron which re-affirmed the NZ and the Feds agreed not to develop cloaking tech. The Rommes then went into a 53 year long isolation from galactic affairs, although there was contact between the Rommies and the Klingons in the 50 year gap (Romulans attacking a Klingon Outpost in 2344 and Khitomer in 2346).

 

[gcmcdowell]

Re: Changes that should have been made in Yesterday’s Enterp

Forbin said:
Civilian Guinan had no business being aboard a military vessel in time of war.

Are there any circumstances where a civilian would be present on a modern military vessel (a cook, for example)?

I honestly don't know, I'm just wondering if there is any real world justification/rationalization that could explain this.

Or could it be that in this timeline the El-Aurian refugees never made it to Federation space (as seen in Generations). Perhaps Guinan was found out in a battle zone and rescued and just allowed to remain on the ship (and given something useful to do - ala Neelix and Kes) until they could return her to a safer location outside of the warzone.

Then again, that would preclude Picard having a pre-existing, trusting relationship with her which seems to be implied if not directly stated in the episode.

 

[Vanyel]

Re: Changes that should have been made in Yesterday’s Enterp

middyseafort said:

4. A ship maybe not so big. Bigger ship, bigger target. Smaller ships should have an advantage in mobility.

Not necessarily.

The physics of space doesn't really work like a WW II air fight or as we have seen in Star Wars, Deep Space Nine or Enterprise with ships zipping along like dog fights.

Of course, I'm no physicist, dammit, just a plain old country poster.

Can anybody answer this: In space does inertia still apply?

If it does then a small ship should have greater mobility (or maybe I'm using the wrong word?) Greater maneuverability is what I'm thinking. Let's say a Galaxy Class ship and a smaller Bird of Prey are both traveling at full impulse. Wouldn't the BoP be able to make sharper and quicker turns than the GC? Just imagine them in a race from Earth to Mars and back again. I know that the ships don't need to bank to turn in space, so let's say they just make a 180. Wouldn't the GC have to fight a greater inertial force to get going back towards Earth than the BoP? I would think that for a time both ships would be flying backwards for a bit before they started forward again. My, admittedly, limited knowledge of physics tells me that the GC would travel backwards longer than the BoP because her mass would make her forward momentum a lot more to over come than a BoP's.

If I'm wrong, please let me know. But don't go all Einstein on me, dumb it down a little (but don't be condescending either, that really pisses me off).

 

[Gil T.Azell]

If its been said already sorry for the double post.
Tasha does NOT get aboard the Enterprise-"C"

 

[Vanyel]

Re: Changes that should have been made in Yesterday’s Enterp

Johnnyracefan said:
If its been said already sorry for the double post.
Tasha does NOT get aboard the Enterprise-"C"

Please explain.

 

[Forbin]

Re: Changes that should have been made in Yesterday’s Enterp

Yes, inertia exists in space.

(How's that for simple?)

Basically, a 3 million ton spaceship still has 3 million tons of mass, and 3 million tons of inertia, whether it's in a gravity field or not. If it's moving at 25%C in one direction and you want to suddenly reverse and go the other way, you have to have enough power to cancel out 3 million tons of inertia traveling at 25%C, AND then enough power to accelerate it in the opposite direction.

 

[Visitor1982]

Re: Changes that should have been made in Yesterday’s Enterp

I always believed they should have had Dr. Pulaski as the CMO on one of the alternate reality episodes they'd done.

 

[Nebusj]

Re: Changes that should have been made in Yesterday’s Enterp

Forbin said:
Yes, inertia exists in space.

(How's that for simple?)

You're quite right, although the one catch there is that's how things work with real-world physics. There's a moderate bit of evidence that in the Star Trek universe there exist inertia-cancelling or at least minimizing technologies.

For one there's all the convenient anti-gravity devices from the original series. For another there's the use of warp drive in ``Q Loses His Powers And Learns To Love Chocolate'' (I forget the proper title) to reduce the effective mass of an asteroid, and then again to lower the mass of Deep Space Nine in ``How Sisko Learned To Stop Moping And Love The Prophets''.

Behind the scenes, warp fields and warp bubbles seem to be derived from James Blish's fitting of spindizzy drives into the technical background for the novelizations and Spock Must Die! and that's rather explicitly a drive that plays games with just what mass and inertia are. While the connection isn't explicitly made there's some spirit of that underlying the mechanism.

So: in real physics inertia is inertia and there's just no messing with it. There's some reason to argue that in Trek Physics inertia is a more malleable property, however.

 

[Vanyel]

Re: Changes that should have been made in Yesterday’s Enterp

Forbin said:
Yes, inertia exists in space.

(How's that for simple?)

Basically, a 3 million ton spaceship still has 3 million tons of mass, and 3 million tons of inertia, whether it's in a gravity field or not. If it's moving at 25%C in one direction and you want to suddenly reverse and go the other way, you have to have enough power to cancel out 3 million tons of inertia traveling at 25%C, AND then enough power to accelerate it in the opposite direction.

So then would a Bird of Prey have greater maneuverability than the larger Galaxy Class?

Yes that is a good easy to understand explanation. Thank you.

 

[nx1701g]

Re: Changes that should have been made in Yesterday’s Enterp

I always thought that they should have shown Worf, briefly, on one of the Klingon ships.

 

[Forbin]

Re: Changes that should have been made in Yesterday’s Enterp

VERY good points, Nebusj, I hadn't thought of that.

Vanyel said:

Forbin said:
Yes, inertia exists in space.

(How's that for simple?)

Basically, a 3 million ton spaceship still has 3 million tons of mass, and 3 million tons of inertia, whether it's in a gravity field or not. If it's moving at 25%C in one direction and you want to suddenly reverse and go the other way, you have to have enough power to cancel out 3 million tons of inertia traveling at 25%C, AND then enough power to accelerate it in the opposite direction.

So then would a Bird of Prey have greater maneuverability than the larger Galaxy Class?

That depends entirely on how much drive power each ship has, and (as Nebusj pointed out) how much inertia-cancelling ability each ship has. If a Galaxy Class can reduce its own mass to below that of a BoP, and a BoP can't reduce its mass at all, then the GC will be more maneuverable.

I think.

My head hurts.

 

[Gil T.Azell]

Re: Changes that should have been made in Yesterday’s Enterp

Vanyel said:

Johnnyracefan said:
If its been said already sorry for the double post.
Tasha does NOT get aboard the Enterprise-"C"

Please explain.

The whole Sela story line.
waste of time.