Chakotay and Paris insignia?
- Thread starter Immolatus
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). Why does Chakotay have a provisional rank and Tom doesn't?Perhaps because Chakotay got his commission from Janeway personally, while Tom's was cleared by Starfleet Command before their departure?
Supposedly Chakotay lost the right to wear Starfleet Lt.Cmdr pins when becoming a Maquis. Possibly Janeway felt she didn't have the right to give back what SF Command had taken away.
Indeed, it may be that Janeway felt she had no right to promote anybody without Starfleet's persmission. At best, she could restore those rank pins she had punitively stripped from Tuvok (after "Prime Factors", given back in "Revulsion") and Paris (after "30 Days", given back in "Nightingale" IIRC).
Timo Saloniemi
Supposedly Chakotay lost the right to wear Starfleet Lt.Cmdr pins when becoming a Maquis. Possibly Janeway felt she didn't have the right to give back what SF Command had taken away.
Indeed, it may be that Janeway felt she had no right to promote anybody without Starfleet's persmission. At best, she could restore those rank pins she had punitively stripped from Tuvok (after "Prime Factors", given back in "Revulsion") and Paris (after "30 Days", given back in "Nightingale" IIRC).
Timo Saloniemi
^Paris' rank was restored in "Unimatrix Zero" (part 1).
Starfleet had cleared Tom as a 'guest only'. He was to have no rank, and, after he had helped them capture the Maquis, they were going to let him go, but he was never to return back to Starfleet.
As a guest, Tom didn't have a rank. In fact, he didn't get his pips until after the crews were joined. He was in the same boat as Chakotay. He had been a Starfleet officer, went rouge for whatever reason, and then found himself stuck in the Delta Quadrant. Theoretically, he should have the same insignias as Chakotay, or Chakotay should have had pips.
The difference between Tom & Chakotay is so simple - Tom was a volunteer on Janeway's ship, even if he was there for his own interests, while Chakotay was a refugee on Janeway's ship.
Yeah, they were both ex-officers that joined the Maquis and committed crimes against the Federation and Cardassian Union, but Tom got caught. Chakotay didn't. And that's why Tom got real pips while Chakotay got those funky insignia like the rest of the Maquis.
Yeah, they were both ex-officers that joined the Maquis and committed crimes against the Federation and Cardassian Union, but Tom got caught. Chakotay didn't. And that's why Tom got real pips while Chakotay got those funky insignia like the rest of the Maquis.
It never did make sense to me. If Janeway were simply re-activating Paris' commission that he resigned, the same could be said for Chakotay.
TPTB should've listened to me a decade ago when I said the Maquis shouldn't have been in Starfleet uniforms.
Indeedly.
(To nitpick, Chakotay voluntarily resigned. Paris was drummed out.)
True, all Janeway openly promised Paris was that he would get some bonus points when the issue of his release from the penal colony next came under consideration. Yet it's not implausible that Janeway would have had secret Starfleet clearance to restore Tom's rank at the successful completion of the mission - Tom was the brilliant and prominent child of a high-ranking Admiral, after all, and would have been an excellent example to set for other Maquis pondering a re-defection.
It's also borderline plausible that Tom would have been a senior Lieutenant when expelled, although some lower rank would sound likelier. It might also be that Tom was kicked out as junior Lieutenant, and Janeway was told to accept him back with one-step promotion - which would be why she stresses the rank in her commissioning speech. Why Paris is so mightily surprised could be explained simply by him getting his rank back, of course.
In contrast, Janeway would have no orders from Starfleet to rehabilitate Chakotay, a criminal who had performed no redeeming missions for Starfleet. And she wouldn't get that urge for the first year or two, either - because reversing her decision to segregate the Maquis would be admitting that they weren't getting home any time soon, and she wasn't willing to do that.
Timo Saloniemi
(To nitpick, Chakotay voluntarily resigned. Paris was drummed out.)
True, all Janeway openly promised Paris was that he would get some bonus points when the issue of his release from the penal colony next came under consideration. Yet it's not implausible that Janeway would have had secret Starfleet clearance to restore Tom's rank at the successful completion of the mission - Tom was the brilliant and prominent child of a high-ranking Admiral, after all, and would have been an excellent example to set for other Maquis pondering a re-defection.
It's also borderline plausible that Tom would have been a senior Lieutenant when expelled, although some lower rank would sound likelier. It might also be that Tom was kicked out as junior Lieutenant, and Janeway was told to accept him back with one-step promotion - which would be why she stresses the rank in her commissioning speech. Why Paris is so mightily surprised could be explained simply by him getting his rank back, of course.
In contrast, Janeway would have no orders from Starfleet to rehabilitate Chakotay, a criminal who had performed no redeeming missions for Starfleet. And she wouldn't get that urge for the first year or two, either - because reversing her decision to segregate the Maquis would be admitting that they weren't getting home any time soon, and she wasn't willing to do that.
Timo Saloniemi
I've just always believed it was because Tom Paris was working for Starfleet as a member of Janeway's crew when Voyager was lost, and Chakotay & Co. were active criminals, on the run from Starfleet. A pretty clear distinction, IMO, no matter how Tom left the fleet.
Tom was there working for Janeway. Chakotay's crew were there because they had no other option after their leader sold them out to Janeway's idealism.
Tom was there working for Janeway. Chakotay's crew were there because they had no other option after their leader sold them out to Janeway's idealism.
Regarding Tom's pips, it would help a bit if we knew more about his career and history. Not the events as such, but more like the dates. How old is Tom, anyway?
The character as played could well be ten years Harry Kim's senior if need be. A very plausible senior Lieutenant, then. If we go by the ages of the actors in lieu of other data, though, McNeill is only four years Garrett Wang's senior, and more likely to reach junior Lieutenant at most by the time of his fall from grace.
The Encyclopedia and Memory Alpha fail to mention any tiny hints that could help establish the age of the character - but somebody here might have paid closer attention?
Timo Saloniemi
The character as played could well be ten years Harry Kim's senior if need be. A very plausible senior Lieutenant, then. If we go by the ages of the actors in lieu of other data, though, McNeill is only four years Garrett Wang's senior, and more likely to reach junior Lieutenant at most by the time of his fall from grace.
The Encyclopedia and Memory Alpha fail to mention any tiny hints that could help establish the age of the character - but somebody here might have paid closer attention?
Timo Saloniemi
Perhaps Tom was given a 'Starfleet' rank simply because Janeway was wise enough to realize that Chakotay and the rest of his crew wouldn't be willing to share their Maquis status with him at that point.
It was an act of preservation. At that point she didn't know any of Chakotay's crew well enough to trust them to hold a civilized peace with the man who had sold them out.
Buying Paris' admiration and trust by feeding him a little renewed 'belonging' was just her boon.
It was an act of preservation. At that point she didn't know any of Chakotay's crew well enough to trust them to hold a civilized peace with the man who had sold them out.
Buying Paris' admiration and trust by feeding him a little renewed 'belonging' was just her boon.
weird. I had noticed that their insignias were different but never thought anything of it. I'm surprised I didn't considering how Tom's my fav. character, next to B'Elanna. lol.
Well, let's talk about Torres too. She didn't even MAKE it through the Academy, and SHE gets to be a Lieutenant. What's up with that..?
Mark
Mark
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