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CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

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I would agree if not for two points. First, cutting the run length to 15 minutes makes it impossible to tell the type of story that a Star Trek episode or movie tells because of time constraints, or to tell a story arch due to the series prohibition.
TAS was able to tell good stories in 20-25 minutes which included quite a bit of filler. Why not 15 minutes? I think they can string two together too, no?

Second, they don't provide any license or covenant not to sue, so film makers don't really have any form of legal protection no matter how friendly and respectful they are to CBS or Paramount. Either of these would go a long way to making me think it's balanced.
If you mean they were smart enough to still have power to stop real threats, I agree. But, it will be very hard for them to do anything to a true fan film that obeys the rules. They will look very bad, and a judge/jury would give quite a bit of weight to the concession of guidelines, especially to fans who are truly obeying the spirit of the guidelines. However, those that are breaking the spirit, might very well be in jeopardy.

They really have no obligation to make it fully balanced, which is why I used the term "merciful". However, I'm not naive enough to think mercy was their true endgame, but they could have driven Axanar into the dust. Even if they had a losing case (and I think they had a winning case anyway), they have much more money to enable them to do that
 
They really have no obligation to make it fully balanced....

THIS. This and this and THIS.

Well stated. Star Trek is CBS and Paramount's IP to do as they please. Some IP holders don't even allow fan fiction (Looking at you, Anne Rice), CBS and Paramount have given an extraordinary amount of leeway when it comes to fan work.

But, it never seems to be enough for some fans. Which screams entitlement.
 
Fanfiction.net has a whole list of authors who don't want works based on their material:

FanFiction respects the expressed wishes of the following authors/publishers and will not archive entries based on their work:
  • Anne Rice
  • Archie comics
  • Dennis L. McKiernan
  • Irene Radford
  • J.R. Ward
  • Laurell K. Hamilton
  • Nora Roberts/J.D. Robb
  • P.N. Elrod
  • Raymond Feist
  • Robin Hobb
  • Robin McKinley
  • Terry Goodkind

Oh, lord, how shall I ever survive without Archie works!
 
But, it never seems to be enough for some fans. Which screams entitlement.

To a point, I understand the need to feel like a fan owns a piece of fandom. At the same time, I think it’s perfectly okay if you don’t like something the IP holder is doing to that IP, it’s really okay to say your peace and walk away. Look at reactions to the Kelvin films or Disco or The Last Jedi or even some reactions to Infinity War. I get we as fans spend a lot of time and money on our passions. But it’s really okay to just say, “I didn’t like that” and move on. Whether it’s to the next thing in that franchise or something totally new.
 
To a point, I understand the need to feel like a fan owns a piece of fandom. At the same time, I think it’s perfectly okay if you don’t like something the IP holder is doing to that IP, it’s really okay to say your peace and walk away. Look at reactions to the Kelvin films or Disco or The Last Jedi or even some reactions to Infinity War. I get we as fans spend a lot of time and money on our passions. But it’s really okay to just say, “I didn’t like that” and move on. Whether it’s to the next thing in that franchise or something totally new.

It's HEALTHY to say, "I don't like this, I'm going to do something else with my time and money."

It's really unhealthy to make hours and hours of content for youtube why "true" fans don't like Discovery or Last Jedi and why it's the end of the respective franchise.
 
From the standpoint of violating the legal rights of CBS, I get what you're saying, but from a purely profit point of view, I can see a new sci-fi franchise being filmed at a sound stage initially set up for a fan film and legally "stealing" some of CBS's profits. Heck, it might happen at the sound stage AP created and lost when he had to vacate. Some new sci-fi franchise may come along and rent that very building.
Maybe. I question if they could have actually made a profit off of renting the sets without pissing off CBS.
So what's the problem with turning a star trek set into a generic or new scifi set and making new films? And making profit, even, if it doesn't look like star trek and doesn't call itself star trek, wouldn't be problematic because its not a violation of anyone elses IP.
 
TAS was able to tell good stories in 20-25 minutes which included quite a bit of filler. Why not 15 minutes?
To quote Vic Mignogna:

"We cannot tell our stories in fifteen minutes. You can't tell a Star Trek story in fifteen minutes. Sure, you can fight Klingons in fifteen minutes, [...] or you can beam down and look around a planet for fifteen minutes, but you can't tell an involved, deep, meaningful story with subtlety and character development in fifteen minutes."
I think they can string two together too, no?
That gives you SOME extra time (though I would argue that it's still not enough for some kinds of stories), but it also slashes your per minute budget in half.
If you mean they were smart enough to still have power to stop real threats, I agree.
There is no threat. I have yet to even hear someone propose a purely hypothetical one. That's not smart, that's Draconian.
But, it will be very hard for them to do anything to a true fan film that obeys the rules. They will look very bad, and a judge/jury would give quite a bit of weight to the concession of guidelines, especially to fans who are truly obeying the spirit of the guidelines. However, those that are breaking the spirit, might very well be in jeopardy.
First of all, if someone complies with absolute letter of every guideline, I question whether or not some abstract argument about them violating the "spirit" would have any real meaning in a court of law, especially since I don't think following the guidelines will serve any other purpose than mitigating damages, because it will have no effect on a judgment of whether or not you violated copyright.
They really have no obligation to make it fully balanced, which is why I used the term "merciful".
Good, we can dispense with the pretense.
However, I'm not naive enough to think mercy was their true endgame, but they could have driven Axanar into the dust. Even if they had a losing case (and I think they had a winning case anyway), they have much more money to enable them to do that
If @Professor Zoom is to be believed, they already drove them into the dust, because AP is never going to release Axanar. Why keep fighting for money Axanar doesn't have to stop a film that's already dead?
It's really simple, if you don't like or can not work with the guidelines, don't make Star Trek Fan Films.
That's the whole point. Many of us are not making Star Trek fan films, because of our objection to the Guidelines. Some of us are even making our own "sandboxes". Like @tharpdevenport said, we can walk and chew gum at the same time.
Some IP holders don't even allow fan fiction (Looking at you, Anne Rice)
Anne Rice has been accused of campaigns of coordinated harassment against fan authors, so I'd pick a better example.
CBS and Paramount have given an extraordinary amount of leeway when it comes to fan work.
Cory Doctorow licenses his books under the Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-ShareAlike license. By comparison, the Guidelines are pretty weak sauce.
So what's the problem with turning a star trek set into a generic or new scifi set and making new films? And making profit, even, if it doesn't look like star trek and doesn't call itself star trek, wouldn't be problematic because its not a violation of anyone elses IP.
Legally, there isn't one. Financially, they compete with CBS's content offerings in the marketplace, potentially reducing their profit. Of course, that not our concern, unless we own stock in CBS.
 
Though I've enjoyed a number of fan productions, I almost wish CBS would shut down fan films altogether as a big middle finger to entitled would-be fans/producers...
 
That's the whole point. Many of us are not making Star Trek fan films, because of our objection to the Guidelines.

Had you made any fan film?

Anne Rice has been accused of campaigns of coordinated harassment against fan authors, so I'd pick a better example.

Nah. She's a fine example of exactly what I was giving an example of. Someone not allowing their IP to be used by fans. And someone else has given other examples.

Cory Doctorow licenses his books under the Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-ShareAlike license. By comparison, the Guidelines are pretty weak sauce.

So?

How does that make one difference to the statement: CBS and Paramount are no obligation to make things fair. So another author does. Doctorow is also under no obligation to make things fair.
 
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I interpret this to mean that both you and Vic feel that TAS did not tell good stories and were not good episodes. I am not trying to put words in either of your mouths, but this seems to be the message. I would like to politely disagree, as much as I respect both of your opinions. I think some of the TAS episodes are good and I think a good writer can do good things with even 15 minutes, and certainly 30 minutes if two are combined. It's challenging of course, and not optimal, of course. All I have to do is take any 50 minutes TOS episode and start editing down to 30 minutes to prove this. Would the end result suffer some? Yes, but it could still be a good story. Heck, in reruns they would cut 10 extra minutes out to make more time for commercials.
 
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