CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar
- Thread starter Richard Baker
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That's delusional. Keep dreaming.
Somebody in marketing, maybe, or maybe Van Citters might reach out to James or Vic or somebody and ask what's going on.
Meanwhile, legal might throw a party, if they even knew about it.
Beyond that, the "NOTICE ME SENPAI" from fans waiting on a response of some kind would end up looking something like this when all's said and done:
CBS would probably be thrilled if fan films dried up. So much less hassle for them and not much to gain for them.
I'm sure they miss the days when it was just horny female fans writing lurid fanfictions about K/S boning each other
I'm pretty sure you have to register the copyright before you can sue for infringement.
Ideas typically aren't that original anyways. For instance, I had an idea for a plot similar to Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda a full year before it came on the air. Same for Early Edition. Heck, if it was just an idea, you really can't prove that the person they were talking to didn't have a nearly identical idea earlier and they just decided to write it up that night because they heard you "repeat" it.
If you gave the guy a really detailed story with characters and everything, that has a consistent plot, that you never even wrote notes on but just kept the entire thing in your head, and they went home and wrote the entire story in one night, between their amazing ability to write up a story from memory and your staggering lack of judgment, I'd say they deserve their copyright.
Depends. If I've written a book, but haven't registered the copyright, and I tell you about it and you rush home and create a similar book based on what I told you, then register a copyright on the similar book, I'm pretty sure that qualifies.
What a layperson would consider "stealing" is usually pretty clear cut, whereas copyright is not. You said as much...
...Thus, by using the word "stealing", you imply a malice and intent where none might exist.
Sure you are. You said that copyright infringement is theft, and the courts determine is someone is infringing, so if someone is too poor to afford a defense (since you have no right to a lawyer in civil cases), they're found guilty and are therefore thieves.
By putting my character in a work that then then register for the copyright. You can say it's not likely, but then it doesn't have to be them. Anyone could do it.
No more than I can imagine a situation where they'd have to worry about someone registering a copyright on a fan film.
Nah! They could just require them to agree to surrender the copyright or grant a permissive license if that were the problem. The real problem with fan submissions is that they might be copying their ideas from someone else.
One where multiple fan letter campaigns keep a show alive long enough for it to have sufficient episodes for syndication.
Remember the good old days, back when we lived in the great tree?
If someone attempted to violate a top tree dweller's property, the Dominate One would grab them up and carry them all the way to the very top limbs, hold them over his head and cast them to the ground.
Those days are long gone because someone got excited while picking grub worms from the great trunk and in his haste, invented fire.
If someone attempted to violate a top tree dweller's property, the Dominate One would grab them up and carry them all the way to the very top limbs, hold them over his head and cast them to the ground.
Those days are long gone because someone got excited while picking grub worms from the great trunk and in his haste, invented fire.
Nope.
So? Or is this just words to move a goal post? Basically what you're arguing is that you "copyright fraud" would be hard to prove.
Lol. Ok.
YOUR BOOK IS COPYRIGHTED FROM THE MOMENT OF CREATION. Regardless of registration. If you want to talk about copyright, at least know how it works.
Malice and intent don't disqualify the act.
"I didn't mean any harm by speeding, Officer." is not a good defense.
"I didn't intend to hit someone with my car, Officer" does not disqualify the act of hitting someone.
It might mitigate damages, it might get you off, but, you still broke the law.
It is theft, but the civil case is about copyright infringement. And no one is making anyone infringe. And it's these sorts of ideas, that it's OK to take someone else's property, because it doesn't "really exist" and there's no "harm" is ignorant and gives people the idea that they can do what they want with someone else's work. You are spreading ignorance.
Sigh. Again, you REALLY, HONESTLY believe that CBS and Paramount are watching fan films so they can steal characters from fans? Do you think the people they pay A LOT of money to to create content are going to risk their jobs, their reputations by stealing Lt. Gargleblaster from KorNadda from a fan film?
That actually would be a worry. More of a hassle. Because if some fan did copyright Lt. Gargleblaster and then a writer for Star Trek created a character Capt. Throathummer, that fan might go, HEY, they stole Lt. Gargleblaster from me, I'ma gonna sue.
And now, they have to get lawyers involved. And their lawyers are EXPENSIVE. Too expensive to really want to deal with a delusional fan.
1. Why should they do either of those?
2. What if that person decides they don't want to surrender copyright?
3. Why would they grant licenses? There is no advantage to them GIVING out licenses. There's very little advantage of them SELLING licenses.
The very real problem of fan submissions was if they were rejected and then similar ideas appeared in later episodes. All submissions probably had to sign a waiver of their rights before submitting scripts, but, in the end, was it really worth it? Well, maybe for Ronald Moore it was.
Was that Enterprise? Did that fan letter campaign keep Enterprise on the air? Did I miss seasons 5, 6, and 7? Guys, why didn't anyone tell me!?!?!?!?!!?!/
Uhm what??
CBS Legal doesn't even want fan films!* They'd prefer to do everything in house or with trusted partnerships, like licensing the movies to be made by Paramount (due to the various rights ownership transfers from the CBS/Viacom split many many years ago).
There is absolutely no gain for CBS to "license" fan films. It's the people who actually work for CBS who are also trekkies that seemingly permitted the Guidelines to happen - if you listen or read the transcription of the podcast, Van Critters believes that CBS can officially acknowledge fan films AS fan films as long as they follow the guidelines - previously, CBS "officially" viewed all fanfilms as infringing, and "unofficially" ignored those who respected the unwritten, common-sense rules of fandom.
*speculation. but very probable.
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What the hell are you smoking? CBS/Paramount DOESN'T WANT to do any form of 'open source' licensing. They want a prospective licensee to have a great (and better if all related manufacturing/marketing/production is self funded) idea for a media event or product, and want then to PAY CBS/Paramount for the privilege of being awarded a license (as well as a part of the profits - depending on the agreement.
CBS/Paramount would JUMP FOR JOY if every fan based Star Trek production disappeared from the face of the Earth. Make no mistake, they would LOVE it. Some deluded fans think fan productions maintain public interest - BUT THEY DON'T. Fan Based Star Trek productions are extremely niche. Even if Alec Peters claim that 14,000 fans backed Axanar that number is NOTHING when you look at the worldwide audience and market for Star Trek.
(Oh, and for the "Then why did CBS/Paramount sue him? Because he was touting his production as the first independent Star Trek film and openly saying that people at CBS were okay with this <--- He did that for over a year prior to the lawsuit and after 'Prelude' was released. Had Peters kept a lower profile with the production and not tried to claim Axanar was an independent production crewed with Hollywood professionals and had not made that sub-license agreement with a coffee producer for Axanar coffee, and not tried brokering deals to stream Axanar with Netflix, CBS probably would have left him alone - but it was the fact he was acting like he had a license for the IP. Once they sued and he started claiming he didn't think CBS had a proper copyright filed/that the elements of 'Star Trek' individually were non-copyrightable, he ensured that CBS was going prosecute the suit to the fullest extent and ruin Alec financially OR get Alec to 100% agree to their settlement terms - which Alec said he'd never do, and that he'd take the case all the way to the SCOTUS - until he basically settled with CBS/Paramount on the terms they first proposed when they filed the settlement.)
But, yeah, if you think CBS/Paramount like that there are fans who do productions using their Star Trek IP, you're delusional.
Let me be very blunt @Matthew Raymond, you are not entitled to take something that does not belong to you. Star Trek IP does not belong to you. CBS and Paramount may have turned a willful blind eye to fan films, but make no mistake, it does not belong to you.
You can parse words, find holes in copyright, whatever, but it does not belong to you. Period.
You can try and twist logic all you want to justify watching something that you love, but it doesn't belong to you.
You can parse words, find holes in copyright, whatever, but it does not belong to you. Period.
You can try and twist logic all you want to justify watching something that you love, but it doesn't belong to you.
To which the response will be, "of course it doesn't, but I want to be recognized and allowed to play in the sandbox".
^^ This.
Sadly. I think you are right.
But there would be an addition "and they are bullies when they tell me no. "
Gargleblaster is copyrighted by the Douglas Adams estate.
Just FYI.
Yeah, as I was typing it, trying to make up a name, that's what came out. May Adams Forgive me!
I checked. While your registration doesn't have to happen before the infringement takes place, you need to register before you can sue.
No, because I was talking about the copying of a nigh complete work instead of an idea. I may have missed some of the original context.
You still can't take it to court without registration, and you can't register if you never wrote it down.
If someone runs in front of your car on the highway, and you don't have time to react to miss hitting them, you most certainly have NOT violated the law. Might I also point out that traffic law is far easier to understand than copyright law. You don't hear about speeding tickets making it to SCOTUS that often.
Bull-yotz! You're now basically ignoring my argument and substituting a fictional one. My point is that people can be sued for frivolous reasons, and that they may not be able to afford a proper defense. The court system is not perfect. Innocent people can be found guilty, especially with no professional defense and a burden of proof lower than criminal cases. This is exactly why the two things aren't comparable. You say the civil court can declare someone a "thief", but civil and criminal cases are not even remotely the same.
No, I think someone else is going to steal characters from my film, and I won't be able to stop them without subjecting myself to a potential lawsuit from CBS.
They have that problem anyway. It doesn't have to be a Star Trek fan film for them to have a similar character. Of course, if the person in question was granted a fan license, and the character was in the related fan film, CBS could simply put in a provision that indemnifies themselves.
They wouldn't, but it has nothing to do with the submitter's copyrights and everything to do with the copyrights the submitter may have violated in their submission.
Then you don't accept their submission. This is actually pretty common for some open source projects.
I think you're confused. I'm talking about the submitter granting a license to CBS. It's basically that "waiver" you mentioned.
That was TOS.
That was 50 years ago...and the tale has grown more hyperbolic every decade since. Times have changed.
Then, I'm mistaken. Good for you, I guess?
OH NO. My analogy wasn't perfect, so it's totally invalidated? NOOOOOOO.
lol.
Then, maybe you should stop spreading the idea that taking someone else's property is ok because it's only intellectual. Then maybe someone won't be sued.
Then don't make a fucking fan film if you are worried that someone is going to steal your character.
Are you really worried about that? Is anyone REALLY worried about that? How often do you think this is happening? Is there a mass stealing of characters from fan films that I haven't hard about?
Um. Yeah. I knew that. I was trying to point out to you the difference between a fan letter campaign 50 some years ago and one from some 10 years ago. You really think there's going to be some sort of furious fan letter campaign that will make them remember the importance of fan films? Fans couldn't save Enterprise.
Oh. Sorry for the double post, but I'm surprised @Matthew Raymond you have never asked what I think CBS and Paramount should do regarding fan films.
All analogies fall apart when they are taken too the extreme, as is VERY evident from this most recent discussion.
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