CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[Cpt. Kyle Amasov]

Thats the big problem they have to face; they don't have any money left. the financial summery submitted to the court showed they raised over $1.4 Million, but spent $1.5.

The only way forward is for Peters to either dip into his pockets, which he has been claiming are very deep pockets, and finish what he started or go back to the well and rattle a tin again; which might be a daunting prospect considering after this much raised, there's still not even a finished set to show for it.

This is how we used to make them, remember? You know, spend your own money, build your sets in your own garage... I know they are aiming for more, which is fair, but it also means they probably have to pour in their own cash (or find some private donors). The one thing I learned is that there is a creative, low-cost solution for everything, especially today. For example, rely on location shoots or CG sets (they did that already). Tobias Richter did some amazing work on prelude, as far as effects are concerned.

 

[ThankYouGeneR]

Maybe for once, let's talk about the creative aspect of Axanar.

As I'm not emotionally involved in it in any way, here's the part I don't get. If I remember correctly, the kickstarters already collected enough money to fully fund the first segment of the film, which is what they originally aimed for: shoot it in segments. The script got some flak for not being up to standards (of course, it's still a fan film), so that problem should be gone as well, as it has to go through some major rewrites now. What remains is a truckload of money, a second shot at a good script, some professional actors with a background in ST, access to the intelectual property and usage rights. I've seen amazing indie sf-films being produced on much, much less than that (look up A-list directors' first short films on youtube, e.g. Neil Blomkamp or Gareth Edwards). So if there is any talent involved here, the outcome should be amazing. If not, then not.

I know the new guidelines suck for New Voyages and others who were trying to recreate whole episodes in a 40-minute format. There is no set format for Axanar, so it doesn't really apply here. If TPTB call for two 15-minute segments, so be it. It might very well strengthen the narrative, as they can now focus on the main themes and ideas without diluting it with bad filler material. Prelude was, in my opinion, a great fan film that would have lost its appeal had it been longer. So why not just go ahead and shoot part 2 and 3 in the same format?

I've been considering several of these things myself. Except for a known current truckload of money remaining. As it stands as of this post there no known money. Which is explained by the defendant and Mr. Lane as having been spent on various production and rent necessities. And crowdfunding is stipulated in the settlement to be capped for this movie for up to two segments. Though donations outside of crowdfunding platforems, gifts, etc., are unrestricted and uncapped.

With the money aside, a reasonably good script paring back due to reduced time constraints might indeed strengthen the narrative in my mind too. I too liked Prelude in part because of it's simplicity; the story being 'told' by strong actors worked better for me than if the story had been shown, acted out.

I would have always preferred the movie to have been close to the format of Prelude. I thought it was going to be when I was donating. After the lawsuit was reported and I began looking closely at the production I did discover I was mistaken though. And knew I wouldn't be much interested in it after all. So, yeah, why not just go ahead and like you said make EDIT:3 & 4 2 & 3 in the same format.

 

[Search4]

Before the thread wraps i'd like a summary of all of the nicknames. Personal and production. That alone would be priceless and could be pinned.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I know the new guidelines suck for New Voyages and others who were trying to recreate whole episodes in a 40-minute format. There is no set format for Axanar, so it doesn't really apply here. If TPTB call for two 15-minute segments, so be it. It might very well strengthen the narrative, as they can now focus on the main themes and ideas without diluting it with bad filler material. Prelude was, in my opinion, a great fan film that would have lost its appeal had it been longer. So why not just go ahead and shoot part 2 and 3 in the same format?

When I finally got around to watching Prelude, I liked it for what it was. I've seen people criticize Peters' acting, but for what was required of that format, I thought it was fine. Had Peters simply continued with that History Channel-esque documentary, it would have worked and probably have wrapped the story up in half an hour. That's probably the way forward for Axanar. That's clearly not what Peters wanted to do -- he built sets for a drama, not a documentary. But the limitations he's agreed to work in with the settlement may force his hand.

 

[muCephi]

They are not parties to the suit; they can't be compelled to do anything.

I wouldn't even bring up ranaxA around Terry and I can't say as if I blame him.

Just noting that a number of persons probably have large amounts of written materials pertinent to Axanar emails, financials, etc.. If the lawsuit does not compel 3d parties to keep it confidential, this might prove interesting over time.

Well, I guess you haven't realized, that you're commenting within the Fan Production section instead of The Neutral Zone.

This thread has gone 28,000 posts without anyone being allowed to dominate it with off topic flaming. Best to use 'ignore' if necessary.

 

[jespah]

Right. So we've learned, or more appropriate *I've learned* , lots about (regarding this thread's topic):
Before it's filed.... as in one doesn't always just threaten to sue, then sue. Sometimes one gets organized, clear on the direction and end game preferred.... then files it, in this case, then end of December 2015. (I don't remember the filing date anymore)

After filing.... plaintiff & defense start communicating with each other informally. To sorta get the lay of the land, feel out the situation, see if litigants can come to an early solution.

Then (if not before) evvverryyybody get's a lawyer.

Around then the judge is assigned the case?

Paperwork begins; motions of various natures I think it was.

The judge says 'Get this settled before going to trial' and settlement talks officially begin.

Motions, rulings, more motions, more talks, more... everything.

Eventually in this case a settlement is made..... with prejudice attached. So no appeals. This is it.

Okay, so now we've come to


What 'kinds' of legal details 'might' be being addressed now?

Why would they take maybe or maybe up to sixty days to be completed?

What's possibly happening now in this after part of the settlement?

Mostly right although the parties also pled, e. g. plaintiffs served a complaint and, eventually (after moving to dismiss and also moving to get the complaint clarified), defense filed an answer.

As for the 60-day work, it's probably to do things like change the Twitter handle and might include stuff like dismantling the donor store.

 

[OtherGene]

well just happy this is OVER and we can get back to watching fan made Star trek even if it only 2 15 mintle shows

No one ever said you had to stop. @USS Intrepid posted a neat little story just the other day, in fact.

 

[muCephi]

The thing that has bothered me most about Axanar, aside from the donors not getting the latinum-plated feature movie they paid for, is a word.

Axanar has claimed to be the true standard bearer of the soul of real Trek. Yet at least one of their management apparently

- lied about serious efforts to be nonprofit (never did it) and operating as a nonprofit (operated in actuality without regard to requirements to be a nonprofit, such as focusing on a public good rather than building a for profit operation, having a Board managing the assets as a trust, etc.)

- lied about what "operating as a nonprofit" means in common understanding (claiming "it means after expenses we have no money left")

- lied about Vulcans and the like being or not being Trek (come on)

- lied about recognizability of characters (Soval is not a major character for example)

- lied about whether they copied Trek designs (Vulcan scene architecture isn't copies of Trek, Vulcan robe is Chinese robe, Klingon ship isn't a copy where the only meaningful difference is it is renamed, etc)

- lied about whether they had the right to sell unlicensed Trek branded products (by the act of selling them)

- encouraged a writer to lie to the studios to evade licensing

- lied about the facility being prepared to be a for profit studio ("its only a warehouse")

- lied about being ready to shoot in Jan 2016 (later disclosing their script wasn't anywhere near ready at that time, and that even before the lawsuit hit, they had spent all their money on a far from complete project of making the studio ready not only for the film, but to rent for profit)

- lied about why the perks *had* to have such a long delay (holding perks back for years to try to build a whole crowdfunding system atop the list, when *that* was a barrier only due to the appetite to have the system, rather than a true operational barrier to sending the perks at any time with a few weekends of list cleaning and envelope stuffing)

- lied about their intent to spend large amounts of donor money for personal benefit (defending vigorously the right to "salary" as compensation for labor, then suggesting that rent and/or other expenses they allegedly were forced to pay out of pocket after the lawsuit cut off the crowdfunding spigot somehow *was always intended* to reimburse withdrawals taken as "salary" and "company card expenses" in the past)

And from what has been seen, this is essentially just a sampling.

I have no doubt that unattractive things went on behind the production of Trek; business is like that.

But at least one person in Axanar management did not solely claim that *the product* of their work would be authentic Trek.

They claimed that *they personally* were the embodiment of Trek ideals in their personal approach and consciousness and intentions and choices of how they would manifest their goals. They were righteous to the point of being abusive of anyone daring to ask a question, even donors, and certainly to a long list of professionals and volunteers who came to them, then fled.

I feel Trek cannot *ever* spring from such mentality. No one who truly had any feel for anything decent in Trek would do these things. Period. And deep down, I think everyone knows this.

Axanar Productions management, what remains of them, should ask donors to fund a new project that uses the paid-for sets, so as to meet the obligations to the donors.

However, one of Axanar Productions management, we all know who, should admit that they personally are not worthy of doing Trek, as acknowledgment of the way Axanar was conducted.

Axanar should ask other fan film staff to independently direct and produce and cast and distribute the fan film on behalf of the donors, and tell donors to give their money to that project.

Axanar Productions management should then take their ill-gotten studio and leave Trek.

 

[wtriker1701]

@muCephi : That's how due dilligence works. I applaud your comment.
Your remark, how Axanar should ask other fan film staff to independently direct and produce and cast and distribute the fan film... I'm sure it will never be realized because of the Scorched Earth policy of the Axanar management, aka "Thrown under the bus".

 

[Tom]

Under the guidelines they would indeed be allowed to keep Axanar as the title. The guidelines only restrict the use of the term "Star Trek."

I had meant if they did non Star Trek film, no worries

 

[ThankYouGeneR]

Mostly right although the parties also pled, e. g. plaintiffs served a complaint and, eventually (after moving to dismiss and also moving to get the complaint clarified), defense filed an answer.

As for the 60-day work, it's probably to do things like change the Twitter handle and might include stuff like dismantling the donor store.

Ah. Thanks for this information

 

[KennyB]

The thing that has bothered me most about Axanar, aside from the donors not getting the latinum-plated feature movie they paid for, is a word.

Axanar has claimed to be the true standard bearer of the soul of real Trek. Yet at least one of their management apparently

- lied about serious efforts to be nonprofit (never did it) and operating as a nonprofit (operated in actuality without regard to requirements to be a nonprofit, such as focusing on a public good rather than building a for profit operation, having a Board managing the assets as a trust, etc.)

- lied about what "operating as a nonprofit" means in common understanding (claiming "it means after expenses we have no money left")

- lied about Vulcans and the like being or not being Trek (come on)

- lied about recognizability of characters (Soval is not a major character for example)

- lied about whether they copied Trek designs (Vulcan scene architecture isn't copies of Trek, Vulcan robe is Chinese robe, Klingon ship isn't a copy where the only meaningful difference is it is renamed, etc)

- lied about whether they had the right to sell unlicensed Trek branded products (by the act of selling them)

- encouraged a writer to lie to the studios to evade licensing

- lied about the facility being prepared to be a for profit studio ("its only a warehouse")

- lied about being ready to shoot in Jan 2016 (later disclosing their script wasn't anywhere near ready at that time, and that even before the lawsuit hit, they had spent all their money on a far from complete project of making the studio ready not only for the film, but to rent for profit)

- lied about why the perks *had* to have such a long delay (holding perks back for years to try to build a whole crowdfunding system atop the list, when *that* was a barrier only due to the appetite to have the system, rather than a true operational barrier to sending the perks at any time with a few weekends of list cleaning and envelope stuffing)

- lied about their intent to spend large amounts of donor money for personal benefit (defending vigorously the right to "salary" as compensation for labor, then suggesting that rent and/or other expenses they allegedly were forced to pay out of pocket after the lawsuit cut off the crowdfunding spigot somehow *was always intended* to reimburse withdrawals taken as "salary" and "company card expenses" in the past)

And from what has been seen, this is essentially just a sampling.

I have no doubt that unattractive things went on behind the production of Trek; business is like that.

But at least one person in Axanar management did not solely claim that *the product* of their work would be authentic Trek.

They claimed that *they personally* were the embodiment of Trek ideals in their personal approach and consciousness and intentions and choices of how they would manifest their goals. They were righteous to the point of being abusive of anyone daring to ask a question, even donors, and certainly to a long list of professionals and volunteers who came to them, then fled.

I feel Trek cannot *ever* spring from such mentality. No one who truly had any feel for anything decent in Trek would do these things. Period. And deep down, I think everyone knows this.

Axanar Productions management, what remains of them, should ask donors to fund a new project that uses the paid-for sets, so as to meet the obligations to the donors.

However, one of Axanar Productions management, we all know who, should admit that they personally are not worthy of doing Trek, as acknowledgment of the way Axanar was conducted.

Axanar should ask other fan film staff to independently direct and produce and cast and distribute the fan film on behalf of the donors, and tell donors to give their money to that project.

Axanar Productions management should then take their ill-gotten studio and leave Trek.

No lies. Alternative facts!!!

 

[Admiral Cain]

Stay tuned, folks. The books are out there and may still see the light of day. Class action? Leaker? When they do we will hopefully all be here waiting.

Also, he is going to continue with private fundraising. Any potential donors need a place to come to for information and get questions answered.

 

[DrCorby]

I think the studio is a stone around his neck. It's incomplete and there are better rental options around.

And he no longer has funds to finish it.

Let him keep it

I think this is what bothers me most about the settlement. One of the big points that many here made about Axanar's abuses, and I thought that angered CBS/P, was that Star Trek IP was used to create a for-profit studio. That was supposedly a BIG DEAL.

But if Alec gets to keep that very studio, deficient though it is, and use it to produce Axanar and other alleged projects, the point doesn't get made, clearly and unambiguously, that THOU SHALT NOT USE OUR IP TO BENEFIT THYSELF. Alec and the Axa-faithful get to claim that as a victory, hollow as it may be in reality. And other rip-off artists get the message that they can follow Alec's example if they are smarter and quieter than Alec was. So CBS/P may find themselves back in court in a few years, defending this same territory all over again.

Growing up amidst the ranch lands of the southwestern US, I often saw coyote pelts hanging on barbed wire fences. I learned this was intended to scare off other coyotes and their depredations. Kill one, scare hundreds. CBS/P settled away their opportunity to display Alec and Axanar's virtual pelts, to scare away future IP-poaching varmints. So they may have to go through this all over again.

I know that, in reality, the "studio" may not ever be able to be used as such, draining tens (hundreds?) of thousands of dollars more before the lease expires and it vanishes in a puff of greasy smoke, but that doesn't give me a sense that justice was really done in this case. Maybe that was just too much to hope for...

 

[urbandefault]

I really think the best (read: most entertaining) is yet to come.

 

[dmac]

There are times when I like to put 20/20 hindsight to work and pontificate how everything LFIM attempted to do, might have been done without pushing any "Red Alert" buttons.

 

[muCephi]

I really think the best (read: most entertaining) is yet to come.

Critics praise "Postlude to Axanar":

"Like urinal graffiti upon the firmament" - Rotten Tomatoes

"Two facepalms way, way up!!!" - Variety

"Did I miss something" - George Lucas

 

[urbandefault]

I want to feel sorry for the Axafaithful, and especially the big-dollar donors, but I just can't. Something inside me said the whole thing was suspicious from the get-go, and as it went along it looked more and more that my gut was right. The first time the "real Star Trek" and "professional independent" stufff was thrown out, I knew it was going to go down in flames. The sushi and studio/not-a-studio and all that crap just cemented it for me. This was just LFIM trying to build himself an empire and the people who couldn't see it were just ... you fill in the blanks.

The fact that it went on this long tells me a few things.

Among them:
1. AP is a self-serving narcissist.
2. His followers, though probably really nice people in real life, have a need for something to devote their lives (and money) to and latched onto AP's schpiel as if it was the Gospel.
3. AP/LFIM would probably be a really good used car salesman.

This whole thing sucks for fandom, fan films, and for CBS and Paramount.

I hope AP gets everything in life that he deserves.

 

[Noname Given]

I think this is what bothers me most about the settlement. One of the big points that many here made about Axanar's abuses, and I thought that angered CBS/P, was that Star Trek IP was used to create a for-profit studio. That was supposedly a BIG DEAL.

But if Alec gets to keep that very studio, deficient though it is, and use it to produce Axanar and other alleged projects, the point doesn't get made, clearly and unambiguously, that THOU SHALT NOT USE OUR IP TO BENEFIT THYSELF. Alec and the Axa-faithful get to claim that as a victory, hollow as it may be in reality. And other rip-off artists get the message that they can follow Alec's example if they are smarter and quieter than Alec was. So CBS/P may find themselves back in court in a few years, defending this same territory all over again.

Growing up amidst the ranch lands of the southwestern US, I often saw coyote pelts hanging on barbed wire fences. I learned this was intended to scare off other coyotes and their depredations. Kill one, scare hundreds. CBS/P settled away their opportunity to display Alec and Axanar's virtual pelts, to scare away future IP-poaching varmints. So they may have to go through this all over again.

I know that, in reality, the "studio" may not ever be able to be used as such, draining tens (hundreds?) of thousands of dollars more before the lease expires and it vanishes in a puff of greasy smoke, but that doesn't give me a sense that justice was really done in this case. Maybe that was just too much to hope for...

Well, remember, one of the key things about any settlement is: "No one walks away 100% happy." That said, I think first and foremost in CBS and Paramount's eyes was to make sure their rights to the Star Trek IP were protected; and Alec Peters was shown as blatantly infringing and 'crossing the line' as it were.

With the admissions Alec Peters is required to, and has made with regard to his unauthorized and illegal use of the Star Trek, they got that on the court record; so their primary goal is achieved: Everyone (other major studios and Star Trek fans alike) now knows that CBS and Paramount co own the Star Trek IP, will go to court to protect it vigorously, and there are now a set of guidelines (which CBS/Paramount reserve the right to amend or revoke) and no rights are implied or ceded to anyone else.

Now, do I think they would have liked to have/see Alec Peters be completely liable to pay them the 1.4 million raised/pay statutory damages? You bet they would - but that would have taken time (maybe another year or two as Alec Peters would probably have appealed, etc.) Add to that the fact that while I think there was a 99.9999% chance a Jury would have found Alec Peters liable and have granted a HUGE Damages award to CBS/Paramount; the 0001% chance they might have delivered a different verdict was still there; so it's ALWAYS better to take the sure thing when it satisfies your primary goal.

In the end, CBS/Paramount isn't responsible for the fact that Alec Peters got thousands of people to pledge money for his unlicensed/unauthorized Star Trek film; and as they see it, it's not their place to speak for those people, or return their money. It was the Pledger's own decision to give Alec Peters the money. Again, I'm sure they aren't happy he got 1.4 million trading off the 'Star Trek' brand; but they GOT Alec Peters to admit CBS/Paramount own the Star Trek IP; that he did with his attempted use of the Star Trek IP was wrong/illegal; that he 'overstepped' any 'unwritten rules' that CBS/Paramount may have followed regarding Star Trek fan films in the past; and that he must (with a couple of exceptions noted in the settlement), follow the Star Trek fan film guidelines they have now publically set if he wants to avoid further legal problems in completing 'Axanar'. Further, any Star Trek fan film projects he may do in the future must also follow those Guidelines. CBS/paramount have now set a clear precedent that they WILL exercise their right and invoke legal action against anyone who they feel improperly trades on/make use of the Star Trek IP - and will go the full distance if need be, to protect their property.

The Pledgers have the option of filing their own individual, or class- action (if enough of them get together to do so) lawsuit, to attempt to get a Judgement against Alec Peters/Axanar Productions that nets them a damage award that refunds their money. The thing about that is: It will cost them money - and in the end, it would probably just force Alec Peters to declare bankruptcy for a second time; and even if a Judge fails to grant that bankruptcy; it would be up to the Backers to enforce that Judgement - which means they have to spend more time and money to put liens on and garnish whatever assets Alec Peters actually has to satisfy that Judgement. In other words: If they want their money back, at best they'll get some pennies on the dollar after a lot of hassle/work. IF there's a group that just wants to 'stick it' to Alec Peters for this; and complicate his life and ruin him financially; yes, a successful Class Action suit would accomplish that but the Backers who want that would pay A LOT more in time/money to get that result.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Well, remember, one of the key things about any settlement is: "No one walks away 100% happy." That said, I think first and foremost in CBS and Paramount's eyes was to make sure their rights to the Star Trek IP were protected; and Alec Peters was shown as blatantly infringing and 'crossing the line' as it were.

With the admissions Alec Peters is required to, and has made with regard to his unauthorized and illegal use of the Star Trek, they got that on the court record; so their primary goal is achieved: Everyone (other major studios and Star Trek fans alike) now knows that CBS and Paramount co own the Star Trek IP, will go to court to protect it vigorously, and there are now a set of guidelines (which CBS/Paramount reserve the right to amend or revoke) and no rights are implied or ceded to anyone else.

Now, do I think they would have liked to have/see Alec Peters be completely liable to pay them the 1.4 million raised/pay statutory damages? You bet they would - but that would have taken time (maybe another year or two as Alec Peters would probably have appealed, etc.) Add to that the fact that while I think there was a 99.9999% chance a Jury would have found Alec Peters liable and have granted a HUGE Damages award to CBS/Paramount; the 0001% chance they might have delivered a different verdict was still there; so it's ALWAYS better to take the sure thing when it satisfies your primary goal.

In the end, CBS/Paramount isn't responsible for the fact that Alec Peters got thousands of people to pledge money for his unlicensed/unauthorized Star Trek film; and as they see it, it's not their place to speak for those people, or return their money. It was the Pledger's own decision to give Alec Peters the money. Again, I'm sure they aren't happy he got 1.4 million trading off the 'Star Trek' brand; but they GOT Alec Peters to admit CBS/Paramount own the Star Trek IP; that he did with his attempted use of the Star Trek IP was wrong/illegal; that he 'overstepped' any 'unwritten rules' that CBS/Paramount may have followed regarding Star Trek fan films in the past; and that he must (with a couple of exceptions noted in the settlement), follow the Star Trek fan film guidelines they have now publically set if he wants to avoid further legal problems in completing 'Axanar'. Further, any Star Trek fan film projects he may do in the future must also follow those Guidelines. CBS/paramount have now set a clear precedent that they WILL exercise their right and invoke legal action against anyone who they feel improperly trades on/make use of the Star Trek IP - and will go the full distance if need be.

The Pledgers have the option of filing heir own individual, or class- action (if enough of them get together to do so) lawsuit, to attempt to get a Judgement against Alec Peters/Axanar Productions that nets them a damage award that refunds their money. The thing about that is: It will cost them money - and in the end, it would probably just force Alec Peters to declare bankruptcy for a second time; and even if a Judge fails to grant that bankruptcy; it would be up to the Backers to enforce that Judgement - which means they have to spend more time and money to put liens on and garnish whatever assets Alec Peters actually has to satisfy that Judgement. In other words: If they want their money back, at best they'll get some pennies on the dollar after a lot of hassle/work. IF there's a group that just wants to 'stick it' to Alec Peters for this; and complicate his life and ruin him financially; yes, a successful Class Action suit would accomplish that but the Backers who want that would pay A LOT more in time/money to get that result.

Also: let's not forget, CBS/Paramount DID sue... that means they aren't afraid to sue a "fan" when they cross a line. And not everyone is going to be lucky enough to have an attorney Pro Bono. (even then, that's just the billable hours of the attorney, not everything.)

It can be expensive to be sued. Why risk that?