• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

Status
Not open for further replies.
Ryan Thomas Riddle said:
Yes. "Embracing the Winds" was already in the can nearing production when the guidelines hit, so it wouldn't have to fall under them.



Exactly. As John Van Citters pointed out on the Engage podcast, these are guidelines not rules. A production can ignore them if they want. However, they do so at their own risk.
Click to expand...
Which, if you think about it, is exactly what the status quo was until Axanar.

My opinion is that CBS will let Continues slide since they have promised the series has a certain end coming soon.
 
carlosp said:
Which, if you think about it, is exactly what the status quo was until Axanar.

My opinion is that CBS will let Continues slide since they have promised the series has a certain end coming soon.
Click to expand...

Agree on both points. Also, because Continues has stopped all fundraising after their last kickstarter, which was before the guidelines.


dmac said:
Dang-it Sgt_G, I can't CASH in with a political answer on that one, on this page.
Click to expand...

Did someone say Cash?

8799023.jpg


Sorry, Neil, had to beat you to it. :)
 
carlosp said:
My opinion is that CBS will let Continues slide since they have promised the series has a certain end coming soon.
Click to expand...

The other things in Continues' favor are:

1) no more crowdfunding rounds
2) they said they will stop dead in their tracks if asked (like what Tommy Kraft did)

Not getting slapped with a C&D doesn't mean they're in compliance.

I'm not as much concerned about Continues directly as much as I am about what precedent that sets for other fan-films. We may very well get to a point where all the fan-films honor only the crowdfunding and no-Trek-veteran clauses but ignore the creative constraint clauses just as Cotinues under the assumption that if Continues gets away with it, they can too. Sort of like driving 65 in a 55. So if CBS really firmly believes that it needs those creative constraints like running time and no serial storylines, it may be forced to act tougher. And if they can see all this coming, they'd be advised to act tougher with Continues rather than waiting for copycats. We'll see.
 
mos6507 said:
The other things in Continues' favor are:

1) no more crowdfunding rounds
2) they said they will stop dead in their tracks if asked (like what Tommy Kraft did)

Not getting slapped with a C&D doesn't mean they're in compliance.

I'm not as much concerned about Continues directly as much as I am about what precedent that sets for other fan-films. We may very well get to a point where all the fan-films honor only the crowdfunding and no-Trek-veteran clauses but ignore the creative constraint clauses just as Cotinues under the assumption that if Continues gets away with it, they can too. Sort of like driving 65 in a 55. So if CBS really firmly believes that it needs those creative constraints like running time and no serial storylines, it may be forced to act tougher. And if they can see all this coming, they'd be advised to act tougher with Continues rather than waiting for copycats. We'll see.
Click to expand...
It will be the fan films that stick to the rules/guidelines who will end up with the largest disappointment.
 
dmac said:
It will be the fan films that stick to the rules/guidelines who will end up with the largest disappointment.
Click to expand...

By virtue of subjecting themselves to creative constraints?

Funny you say that. When the guidelines first came out I remember some posters who went ballistic over the idea that the creative constraints were really limiting. The accusation was if you can't do an earth-shatteringly awesome fan-film experience in a 15-minute running-time with single-use characters, well, you're just a bad writer/producer!

The fact is different running-times are effectively a different format/genre, and this is exactly the reason why CBS/P applied those constraints, so the experience of watching a fan-film would never feel equivalent to an episode of Discovery, even at the level of its basic structure.
 
mos6507 said:
By virtue of subjecting themselves to creative constraints?

Funny you say that. When the guidelines first came out I remember some posters who went ballistic over the idea that the creative constraints were really limiting. The accusation was if you can't do an earth-shatteringly awesome fan-film experience in a 15-minute running-time with single-use characters, well, you're just a bad writer/producer!

The fact is different running-times are effectively a different format/genre, and this is exactly the reason why CBS/P applied those constraints, so the experience of watching a fan-film would never feel equivalent to an episode of Discovery, even at the level of its basic structure.
Click to expand...
Creativity comes in all shapes and sizes and yes I've seem many short shorts pointed to as an example of what can be done in under 15 minutes.
Cartoons are a great example with 5 - 7 minute run times but they are mostly mini serials.
Mostly what made some of the fan films "Near Studio Like" was the amount of money they could raise to create their episodes. $50,000 per 15 minutes is like $200,000 per hour at a time when $70,000 for an hour episode was creating some fairly nice stuff.
I just found it interesting that fund raising wasn't the thing which was clamped down on the hardest when it (IMHO) was the root cause of the problem.
 
ThankYouGeneR said:
I 'think' what it means is that third parties who are not authorized to speak for them are irrelevant and would therefore move to dismiss motion to obtain any paper trail, etc. about C/P conversations at some point about the lawsuit going away. Right?


And re the article:
Again with this Speaking For All Fans?:
-"Fans are still stunned by both the studios and their unwillingness to support the fan-made film." - article author
Is that a fact or Opinion? Let's test that shall we? How many fans are stunned? What percentage of fandom is stunned? Are 50% of us stunned? 3/4ths of us stunned? All of us? Are you speaking for all of us? I just can't measure the joy..... anyway.... What percent of us even 'know' about this lawsuit? Of those who know how many of them even 'care' about it? And how many of those who care think the studios are not supportive of fan-made films? So, author of this article, how does your statement of fact test out? I'm calling it Click Bait.

-"While some may call it a 'fan film' as we are not licensed by CBS, Axanar has professionals working in front and behind the camera, with a fully-professional crew -- many of whom have worked on Star Trek itself -- who ensure Axanar will be the quality of Star Trek that all fans want to see,” -speaking for the production that is being sued.
Really? How are they going to do that I'd like to know?
Early days on when I was still a supporter/donor and learned the second production wasn't going to be filmed like the first one (I liked the talking heads thing a Lot. Really.) and it was going to be instead a ST war movie I was already posting I wasn't going to be interested in seeing anyway it even if I had been donating to it.

(And war shows are just soooo Mr. Roddenberry's vision for Trek. That's why TOS was so chock full of war The Romulan War. The Klingon war. The other alien(s) war. And in TNG during his tenure there too. And he just luvvved how TWOK was true to his vision of Trek. ........ Not.)
Click to expand...

Yup... just sticking to this and releasing a *fantastic* series of war documentaries would have given them all the fame and praise they could have ever wanted.

I was so impressed by the Prelude.... it was a brand new take on Trek I had never seen before. They could get any actor they wanted to sit and talk! Show off their effects without having to build and film endless sets and dialogue! Tell an absolutely epic story, sticking to budget and have a perfectly logical reason for skipping the "difficult" parts. Even room for "dramatic re-enactment" scenes during which budget/acting ability would matter a lot less, because the legitimacy was coming from the talking heads.

They missed the mark SO MUCH trying to make this a Peters/Garth vanity project. Its one of the few times when "tell, don't show" actually would have worked over "show, don't tell."

*EDIT* And I doubt they would have ended up pissing off all their big name celebrity talking head actors if they had just done this, either!
 
Last edited:
Phoenix219 said:
Yup... just sticking to this and releasing a *fantastic* series of war documentaries would have given them all the fame and praise they could have ever wanted.

I was so impressed by the Prelude.... it was a brand new take on Trek I had never seen before. They could get any actor they wanted to sit and talk! Show off their effects without having to build and film endless sets and dialogue! Tell an absolutely epic story, sticking to budget and have a perfectly logical reason for skipping the "difficult" parts. Even room for "dramatic re-enactment" scenes during which budget/acting ability would matter a lot less, because the legitimacy was coming from the talking heads.

They missed the mark SO MUCH trying to make this a Peters/Garth vanity project. Its one of the few times when "tell, don't show" actually would have worked over "show, don't tell."

*EDIT* And I doubt they would have ended up pissing off all their big name celebrity talking head actors if they had just done this, either!
Click to expand...

Exactly. And if they'd carefully designed the work, they could have probably created something that served as a commentary on both Star Trek and war documentaries, making it transformative on two fronts.

After the original production team left, though, that may have been beyond their creative capabilities.

Actually, after the original production team left, even a short trailer appeared to have been beyond their creative capabilities.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top