CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[muCephi]

Thanks. Notes below.

I'm pretty sure attorney-client privilege will shield this lawyer.

If they do invoke this then I guess it would be confirmation that Alec is an officer of Industry Studios, unless this attorney also handles the business of Axanar Productions.

I think it's less an issue of illegally hiding money so much as it is just creating opaque companies that obscure who is financially benefitting from the studio. While the studio is relevant to the allegation the defendants' gained a direct financial benefit from Axanar's copyright infringement, it's tangential to the actual infringement. CBS likely has little interest in the studio itself, and it could become a burden if not liquidated for damages.

The judge and/or plaintiffs may not care about the studio as much as, say, a pesky reporter might, and these little limited liability companies shield investors from public scrutiny.

I was thinking of fraudulent conveyance, an attempt to escape debt. The lawsuit could reasonably be forseen to create debt, even bankruptcy. The donor money was invested in an asset owned by Axanar Productions = Alec Peters, a potential debtor in both the lawsuits. Knowing this is a possibility, is sheltering the invested value behind a LLC involving potentially the same owner as before, for (hypothetically) a payment perhaps less than the asset is worth, a potentially criminal action? If so, I should think it would be irrelevant in this matter whether C/P might wish to go after the studio as an asset.

 

[Karzak]

And here I though all the porn studios never left the San Fernando Valley area (a suburb near L.A./Hollywood.). I mean Valencia is quite a drive from there.

Meh. I live in Burbank which is technically in the San Fernando Valley, and Valencia is less than an hour away, depending on traffic. Really, it's just the 5N/14 interchange north of Sylmar that holds everyone up. It's a literal bottleneck most of the time.

Then again I drive all over Southern California so I might not be the best person to comment on what constitutes "near" or "far"

 

[RedForman]

Looks like the director of that 'film' has little to do with Alec, am not surprised though that he's a friend of RMB, given the shit I've seen come out of his mouth (this fits, given RMB has maintained a low profile - someone like this being associated with LFIM would've blown things up a long time ago, given LFIM's penchant for shooting his mouth off)

The thread continues.....
https://www.facebook.com/groups/CBSvsAxanar/

Despite the fact this is all a 'sub-plot' of sorts vis-a-vis Axanar, what this says about Alec, RMB and the whole studio venture should have all donors up in arms. After all.........what did they donate towards??

 

[dmac]

Looks like the director of that 'film' has little to do with Alec, am not surprised though that he's a friend of RMB, given the shit I've seen come out of his mouth (this fits, given RMB has maintained a low profile - someone like this being associated with LFIM would've blown things up a long time ago, given LFIM's penchant for shooting his mouth off)

Okay..... He sounds like a nice, likeable, caring young man...

 

[muCephi]

Looks like the director of that 'film' has little to do with Alec, am not surprised though that he's a friend of RMB, given the shit I've seen come out of his mouth (this fits, given RMB has maintained a low profile - someone like this being associated with LFIM would've blown things up a long time ago, given LFIM's penchant for shooting his mouth off)

The thread continues.....
https://www.facebook.com/groups/CBSvsAxanar/

So the clients Axanar finds can't really be expected to care, except for individuals who might have an issue, and how could they fight a contracted job that later turns out to be at this studio?

And he didn't go through Alec but he did go through an agent, perhaps that Location services company that Alec contracted to get things going?

The important thing is that for profit rental of the studio is happening, and that money is going somewhere. If it is into the pockets of Axanar folk, even into an 'operating costs of Axanar' fund that in turn pays them, or if it goes into the value of assets they hold in the studio, then I think donors and C/P could say Axanar Productions staff are personally making money off of the donations and IP. And if it is going to offset the rent of companies residing in the building, and Propworx benefits from this offset, the same.

Follow the money.

 

[RedForman]

So the clients Axanar finds can't really be expected to care, except for individuals who might have an issue, and how could they fight a contracted job that later turns out to be at this studio?

And he didn't go through Alec but he did go through an agent, perhaps that Location services company that Alec contracted to get things going?

The important thing is that for profit rental of the studio is happening, and that money is going somewhere. If it is into the pockets of Axanar folk, even into an 'operating costs of Axanar' fund that in turn pays them, or if it goes into the value of assets they hold in the studio, then I think donors and C/P could say Axanar Productions staff are personally making money off of the donations and IP. And if it is going to offset the rent of companies residing in the building, and Propworx benefits from this offset, the same.

Follow the money.

Exactly. Whether it was Alec, RMB or some other sycophant - I'm betting someone, somewhere arrogantly assumed that Axanar donors were a naiive bunch who couldn't be bothered to investigate/dig/ask questions etc when they didn't get their expected return on investment (the uproar that erupted after the lawsuit was filed, creating the 'pro' and 'anti' Axanar camps illustrates this perfectly - see also the people who so vehemently defend these pieces of filth)

 

[muCephi]

Exactly. Whether it was Alec, RMB or some other sycophant - I'm betting someone, somewhere arrogantly assumed that Axanar donors were a naiive bunch who couldn't be bothered to investigate/dig/ask questions etc when they didn't get their expected return on investment (the uproar that erupted after the lawsuit was filed, creating the 'pro' and 'anti' Axanar camps illustrates this perfectly - see also the people who so vehemently defend these pieces of filth)

It all could be indicating the C/P complaint about Axanar staff benefiting financially may still be going on. Money is flowing. No one on the world's most transparent fan film is being transparent about the donor funds location and what its value may be leveraging, or the operational cashflow of Axanar. I should think C/P may care about what is happening with this income, since it could amount to as much of an IP profit as continuing to sell merchandise.

 

[RedForman]

It all could be indicating the C/P complaint about Axanar staff benefiting financially may still be going on. Money is flowing. No one on the world's most transparent fan film is being transparent about the donor funds location and what its value may be leveraging, or the operational cashflow of Axanar. I should think C/P may care about what is happening with this income, since it could amount to as much of an IP profit as continuing to sell merchandise.

I sure as hell hope C/P and L&L (?) are looking at this then and planning ahead to blunt any possible moves by LFIM (after Judge Klausner puts him in his place).

More importantly I hope the donors look at this and do the smart thing, engaging the CA Attorney General and other relevant parties, to go after LFIM for the obvious fraud he's perpetrated (as the above litigating will no doubt drag out for some time).

If someone somewhere still has access to Axanar forums, MB's etc.......put out an appeal, even if it gets deleted after a moment or two.....

 

[muCephi]

I have often thought that a way to get at a closed FB group would be to buy some targeted ads that just happen to overlap that groups narrowest interest categories... I doubt Axanar could raise a valid objection for example to Axamonitor ads that are seeking their audience on FB.. especially if they also targeted the CBS/P group without any distinction.. of course that would have to be in coordination with Axamonitor, they may not want the threat of lawsuit that might arise :-) Its a fantasy I guess, who is still reading Axanar's website who isn't bought in up to their eyebrows. A news report about an agency 'looking into complaints' could hit all the boards and reach more people and attract more activity.

 

[Indysolo]

I'm sure any donor - even the ones who have been brainwashed - would be interested in knowing what's being filmed at the studio their hard earned dollars created.

(comes from C/P vs Axanar - https://www.facebook.com/groups/CBSvsAxanar/ )



http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5893906/?ref_=nv_sr_1

Okay, even I'm not going to touch that one.

If so, the cash is back in the till and Axanar I guess is just a subtenant.

Did someone say "Cash"?

I don't want to think I'm pay for a studio for Disney and then find out it's being used for Cash Markman movies.

Did someone say "Cash"?

No one on the world's most transparent fan film is being transparent about the donor funds location and what its value may be leveraging, or the operational cashflow of Axanar.

Did someone sort of say "Cash"?

Neil

 

[Karzak]

GODDAMMIT NEIL

 

[Noname Given]

Meh. I live in Burbank which is technically in the San Fernando Valley, and Valencia is less than an hour away, depending on traffic. Really, it's just the 5N/14 interchange north of Sylmar that holds everyone up. It's a literal bottleneck most of the time.

Then again I drive all over Southern California so I might not be the best person to comment on what constitutes "near" or "far"

Yeah, I'm in the North Hollywood area - so I guess we're practically neighbors -- but a 15-20 minute ride across the Valley as opposed to an hour or so on the 118? - Just saying

 

[OtherGene]

As with all things Axanar this latest development is slightly confusing. Do we need to worry about the possibility of a movie featuring Richard Hatchs dinkle as star performer or not?

 

[RedForman]

As with all things Axanar this latest development is slightly confusing. Do we need to worry about the possibility of a movie featuring Richard Hatchs dinkle as star performer or not?

As muCephi mentioned, the real concern isnt the movie itself (though it does reinforce my own perceptions about LFIM and RMB), but the fact it's the most blatant example yet of the profiteering/fraud of the Axanar principals (something no donor(s) seems willing to do anything about)

 

[OtherGene]

As muCephi mentioned, the real concern isnt the movie itself (though it does reinforce my own perceptions about LFIM and RMB), but the fact it's the most blatant example yet of the profiteering/fraud of the Axanar principals (something no donor(s) seems willing to do anything about)

I'm going to play devils advocate, ignore the lawsuit, and for a moment ask "the group" how they'd feel if a series of these projects resulted in the sort of income that then resulted in Axanar being completed and released (in some form) and donors receiving all their perks, everyone living happily ever after etc?

 

[urbandefault]

I'm going to play devils advocate, ignore the lawsuit, and for a moment ask "the group" how they'd feel if a series of these projects resulted in the sort of income that then resulted in Axanar being completed and released (in some form) and donors receiving all their perks, everyone living happily ever after etc?

That's a pretty big "what if?".

Even without the lawsuit I don't think it was ever going to happen, not in any form that would make donors happy. WIth Gossett and Todd gone, the project was already changing shape. I think other cast and crew would have continued to leave as time went on. There would have been delay after delay, one fundraiser after another, and still no movie.

If the lawsuit had never happened, the production would still be bleeding money, building and traveling and sushiing, selling a product that would never exist. Come to think of it, that's what's happening now, even with the lawsuit.

So it looks like it wasn't a big "what if?" after all. AP's been ignoring the lawsuit all along.

 

[OtherGene]

I'm curious whether people on here believe the ends justify the means.

 

[RedForman]

Going off of the TrekZone interview with Gossett, his departure along with other actors & professionals, virtually guaranteed the film wouldn't be made. With the ensuing controversy & LFIM and others going off the deep end (numerous screen shots of which have been posted here), I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone here who believes Axanar will get made.

(Ignoring LFIM's ranting & raving, the lawsuit by a major studio almost certainly guarantees anyone who commits to the project would be blackballed in the business & consigned to working on these D-grade projects)

A major question to answer - with Alec's personality & this lawsuit, who would want to work on/star in such a film (that by C/P's definition, is illegal) ??

 

[Reilly]

I'd ultimately still be curious to see what would be produced. It's been achingly obvious for a while though that anyone backing the project on the basis of Prelude (which includes me) is going to be disappointment if they're expecting something that is of the same quality. The exit of Christian Gosset and continual scope creep while being too busy flying to every event going has sealed that.

I think the problem going forward is that even if the outcome of the court case is vaguely favourable, allowing Alec to keep the studio and continue production, funding is going to be a massive issue. At this stage they've burned their bridges with a reasonable portion of their donor base, and even by the Indigogo campaign it was starting to feel like sending good money after bad given the lack of progress in that year. To be asking for $1.3 million on top of that pointed to a team that had lost control of what they were doing (bearing in mind the Kickstarter's estimated $650k for the whole thing). In addition from the results of the Indigogo which finished a good while prior to the law suit it's obvious even then the well was drying up.

After everything, and even still believing Alec genuinely wants to make this film, there's no way I could justify sending more money their way. It's clearly been frittered away with no eye on actually producing the film.

But if they ever do manage to complete something I'll watch it. Just to see what we ended up with. To be honest I still like the setup and would love to see someone else take a shot at telling the story (unlikely now given the controversy). If Alec and co do manage to release future instalments, documentary style or otherwise, I'll queue them up on YouTube out of curiousity and the enjoyment I get from the setting. Not sure how I'd be if it ended up heavily featuring Alec as Garth though. If they were smart they would stick with recasting that role.

To address another point that was raised here, I was a backer for all three campaigns (despite ignoring the warning feeling I was getting around the Indigogo) and sent more money their way than I'd like to admit (although thankfully still a lot less than a fair number of their donors). At least on that count I have my various Prelude perks to show for it.

However I'm in the "lesson learned" camp. I always view backing these projects as a risk and I let myself get carried away a bit. When the hammer came down I instantly viewed that money as just gone. I can appreciate the desire of various people to see further actions being launched against Alec but for me it'd be too much hassle for the amount I'm out. I instead look to the fact that Alec's dealing with the far larger threat posed by the CBS/P lawsuit, the fact his reputation in fandom is pretty damaged limiting the chances of a future fiasco and the entertainment I've gotten from following this thread and others. Other than that I'm writing off the money and moving on, having learned not to back any project he's associated with.

I'm still not willing to believe this was a deliberate scam or done with any kind of malicious intent, it's pretty clear Alec's just someone that thinks he's a super-awesome businessman but is actually in way over his head.

 

[jespah]

Oh, the film will never be made.

But that was true a year ago, before the lawsuit started. This production was bleeding money for months.

Between scope creep, tons of small- and big-time conventions,

... sushiing...

, the 'biggest green screen evah!', and other unnecessaries, the budget, such as it was, was left in the dust long ago.

I am not saying they had to suffer, but that 'annual report' was a piece of transparency theater. It told a lot, and not a lot that was favorable to the production. Forget the salary and the vaguenesses, it also showed an inability to use basic Excel, ferchrissakes. It made it clear no one was watching where the bucks were going, and then they had their hands out a second time after asking for $650K. Plus add in the perk fulfillment issues that were cropping up. Donors at that time could not see it (and I am not faulting them, as they didn't have enough dots to start connecting them), but the lawsuit has turned into one big, fat excuse to not do diddly. The judge even told them they could go ahead. There is no injunction.

A year ago - September, October, November or so of 2015, the movie was already in the dust. It was already trampled by the rush to get a studio and a steady stream of income and a tax-free and work-free retirement fund.