CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar
- Thread starter Richard Baker
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Couldn't he just solicited donations from fans around the world, using the reach of the World Wide Web? Say, set up some sort of a web page or funding from a group of people (crowd) kind of thing? Perhaps he could even offer tokens of appreciation for certain levels of donated funds...?
AP has his donation/donor store set up already with a big "Click Here To Donate" banner on his Axanar site. AP switched to that when IndieGoGo shut him down. The infrastructure is in place so I imagine he's still generating an income directly bypassing crowdfunding sites. And he doesn't have to pay those crowdfunding sites a slice of the donations so it's all revenue going straight into his pocket.
It will be interesting to see if Loeb & Loeb subpoena AP's financial records taking a look at how much revenue AP's donation store has generated. Speaking for myself, I hope L&L does it.
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From reading AP's captains logs aimed at his devotees he's still promising an Axanar film. He has to say something I suppose so people continue to click on that donate button.
Well, if AP can't crowdfund his studio after this, there are plenty of ways to make money. Here's a couple:
1. Sell Golden Tickets to Heaven, like this (fictional) couple:
http://jacksonville.suntimes.com/jax-news/7/115/146332/couple-arrested-selling-golden-tickets-heaven
http://www.syracuse.com/crime/index...ively_peddling_cds_across_central_new_yo.html
1. Sell Golden Tickets to Heaven, like this (fictional) couple:
http://jacksonville.suntimes.com/jax-news/7/115/146332/couple-arrested-selling-golden-tickets-heaven
2. Hire this guy's street team to sell Prelude DVDs across the country:Jacksonville Sun Times said:
http://www.syracuse.com/crime/index...ively_peddling_cds_across_central_new_yo.html
Mikel Knight said:
It must be said: Hater.
You make it sound trivial; according to the local rules of the court, the ADR proceedings are mandatory (L.R. 16-15.1) and the parties must have participated in them no later than 45 days prior to the final pretrial conference (L.R. 16-15.2.
Would such a date actually bubble to the top for the public to be aware of?
ADR is mandatory for everyone because courts try to get everything to settle. It's cheaper, easier, and faster.
As for the actual date for ADR, I doubt we would know about it. It is entirely possible that Mr. Peters would end up being the best/sole source for that information. If the parties are in serious talks already, the formal ADR might not happen.
Because the parties are going ahead with an answer and a counterclaim, rather than going to the court and looking for extensions because settlement is imminent, that is telling me that settlement may not be as imminent as Mr. Abrams and Mr. Lin believed. It would have been a far easier sequence of operations for defense counsel to request an extension as a means of giving time for a settlement to be finalized, rather than file an answer and lard on a counterclaim as well.
As for the actual date for ADR, I doubt we would know about it. It is entirely possible that Mr. Peters would end up being the best/sole source for that information. If the parties are in serious talks already, the formal ADR might not happen.
Because the parties are going ahead with an answer and a counterclaim, rather than going to the court and looking for extensions because settlement is imminent, that is telling me that settlement may not be as imminent as Mr. Abrams and Mr. Lin believed. It would have been a far easier sequence of operations for defense counsel to request an extension as a means of giving time for a settlement to be finalized, rather than file an answer and lard on a counterclaim as well.
They resorted to plan "B"
Cross Posting:
Fan film guideline speculation
I think it isn't very practical to speculate on the exact content of a set of guidelines, as CBS/P will be putting them together with very little input from the fans, however I do think that there is room to share our thoughts on some of the main issues that will be addressed in any future guidelines. In our discussion let's pretend that CBS/P WILL create these guidelines and WILL enforce them.
First up: Paying for the dang thing.
What would CBS/P accept as a funding source(s) for a new fan production, be it large, small, produced as contest entry or independently?
Personally, I can see them stipulating that no crowdsourcing website, such as Kickstarter or Indiegogo can be used, but what about direct donations? Could the fan film solicit those donations on its website, perhaps provide information as to how to make those transfers? Would there be a cap to how much money they can bring in via donations?
In any case, how would they monitor the restrictions?
Tangentially - would they allow the production to offer "perks" as a reward for donations? Would they restrict them from opening a "donor store" were perks can be reviewed and selected?
Again, how would they monitor these restrictions?
Would fan films be required to have a donation refund policy and/or release audited financial statements listing where/how/when donated funds are spent?
Again, how would they monitor these restrictions?
The more I think about it, the more I wonder if CBS/P wouldn't make an arrangement with a third party vendor to act as an official bank for all fan productions. So if say I wished to make
Star Trek: The Last Generation I would have to open and use an account at said bank for my expenditures, all donated funds would have to be sent to that account, and CBS/P would have some limited control over the account (limited to closing the account and issuing refunds).
Anyways, there is a lot to untangle when it comes to funding... so I would be interested in hearing your thoughts. Again, please operate under the assumption that fan guidelines will be produced and enforced. I am especially interested in hearing what some of the folks who have produced fan material have to say about future funding guidelines.
Fan film guideline speculation
I think it isn't very practical to speculate on the exact content of a set of guidelines, as CBS/P will be putting them together with very little input from the fans, however I do think that there is room to share our thoughts on some of the main issues that will be addressed in any future guidelines. In our discussion let's pretend that CBS/P WILL create these guidelines and WILL enforce them.
First up: Paying for the dang thing.
What would CBS/P accept as a funding source(s) for a new fan production, be it large, small, produced as contest entry or independently?
Personally, I can see them stipulating that no crowdsourcing website, such as Kickstarter or Indiegogo can be used, but what about direct donations? Could the fan film solicit those donations on its website, perhaps provide information as to how to make those transfers? Would there be a cap to how much money they can bring in via donations?
In any case, how would they monitor the restrictions?
Tangentially - would they allow the production to offer "perks" as a reward for donations? Would they restrict them from opening a "donor store" were perks can be reviewed and selected?
Again, how would they monitor these restrictions?
Would fan films be required to have a donation refund policy and/or release audited financial statements listing where/how/when donated funds are spent?
Again, how would they monitor these restrictions?
The more I think about it, the more I wonder if CBS/P wouldn't make an arrangement with a third party vendor to act as an official bank for all fan productions. So if say I wished to make
Star Trek: The Last Generation I would have to open and use an account at said bank for my expenditures, all donated funds would have to be sent to that account, and CBS/P would have some limited control over the account (limited to closing the account and issuing refunds).
Anyways, there is a lot to untangle when it comes to funding... so I would be interested in hearing your thoughts. Again, please operate under the assumption that fan guidelines will be produced and enforced. I am especially interested in hearing what some of the folks who have produced fan material have to say about future funding guidelines.
@jespah that makes sense. Tthe ADR "system" does appear to be set up to run parallel to the court schedule so perhaps such extensions aren't required (or no longer available as a delaying tactic?)
@Jedi_Master There is a inconvenient fact baked into crowd-sourcing, at least in the US, that could be used as a demarcation line: If you generate $20,000 and 200 transactions in a year going through a third party exchange like Amazon Payments, the IRS gets a report and you get a 1099-K from the transaction service. Typically, those running the larger crowd-sourcing campaigns will register as some form of corporate structure (LLC, LLP, etc.) to offset the increased tax exposure. Perhaps a simple rule would be is if you need to form a LLC for your fan film, you are either too ambitious or you must get a license.
@Jedi_Master There is a inconvenient fact baked into crowd-sourcing, at least in the US, that could be used as a demarcation line: If you generate $20,000 and 200 transactions in a year going through a third party exchange like Amazon Payments, the IRS gets a report and you get a 1099-K from the transaction service. Typically, those running the larger crowd-sourcing campaigns will register as some form of corporate structure (LLC, LLP, etc.) to offset the increased tax exposure. Perhaps a simple rule would be is if you need to form a LLC for your fan film, you are either too ambitious or you must get a license.
@jespah that makes sense. Tthe ADR "system" does appear to be set up to run parallel to the court schedule so perhaps such extensions aren't required (or no longer available as a delaying tactic?)
@Jedi_Master There is a inconvenient fact baked into crowd-sourcing, at least in the US, that could be used as a demarcation line: If you generate $20,000 and 200 transactions in a year going through a third party exchange like Amazon Payments, the IRS gets a report and you get a 1099-K from the transaction service. Typically, those running the larger crowd-sourcing campaigns will register as some form of corporate structure (LLC, LLP, etc.) to offset the increased tax exposure. Perhaps a simple rule would be is if you need to form a LLC for your fan film, you are either too ambitious or you must get a license.
I would ask for an extension if settlement was right around the corner. This judge does not like delays but if a week gets the matter settled, I imagine he would be all for that.
Actually, I am kind of thinking the IRS will be chiming in on some of this, any day now
Even beyond the crowdfunding, there is the donor store and there are solicitations at conventions (or cash is provided; it's a little unclear whether there is actual asking going on, hat in hand, or if the money is just provided) plus there is a mailing list which may be getting used for solicitations. Or, again, as a means for donors to provide gifts but not by request. Either way, the figures are high with the crowdfunding. They should be high enough for the IRS to take an interest.
And CBS and Paramount, and Loeb and Loeb, will look so much nicer when they are compared to the Internal Revenue Service.
It must be an interesting discussion they are having behind closed doors, probably worthy of a write up some day.
Set aside Axanar for a moment. A couple of key players are apparently fighting for fan films to exist. At least some corporate folks probably want to shut it all down, since its such a can of worms. Being focused on Trek, the discussion has the unusual factor of considering the impact of fan films on sustaining a multigenerational audience. New media encroachment has to be considered, including the potential for lawsuits that try to make a run at copyright. Enforcement is a potential morass, particularly internationally. Treaties on copyright may even come into play. And, of course, profits.
Its hard to imagine that any guidelines will try to solve a best path through all this. One can't even really say what will come next, anyway, so a nuanced solution could be obsolete tomorrow. I think the best they can do is something simple that doesn't hand over any wiggle room for profit or competition to anyone.
One potential solution could be the single studio for fan films idea, only stripped of Alec's obvious personal goals (all claims of making a nonprofit notwithstanding) .
The studios (or some sponsors eg Abrams/Lin) could build a facility with support capabilities, and studios could require fan films to use it and its services raising funds. If it is all under one roof, then its controllable.
Just sayin', it is one solution. Alec made like he wanted to host fan films as part of his media empire plans, hinted at a nonprofit purpose while doing everything for profit, but still, if the studios just set aside Axanar they could do this as a fresh start and be in control.
Of course, it could drastically throttle the number of productions and create all sorts of insider politics issues, and become a target for every aspiring professional to claim they are a fan and need to use the facility, even though they aren't a fan [ that would probably kill its true fan nature unless someone really fought it ]. But it is a thought.
Not sure it would do anything to literally prevent fans from making films, but it could define 'approved' clearly and give some outlet for some works.
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So are people actually giving Alec Peters cash at the conventions?Actually, I am kind of thinking the IRS will be chiming in on some of this, any day now
*Gets the mental image of Peters rolling around on a bed covered in money, laughing manically.*
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