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CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

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Wow. They raise "almost $500" in a three-day event. Amazing.

I would have found it mildly interesting if they had raised $5,000. To be "awesome", they should have raised at least $15,000 and more like $25,000 - $50,000, no?

Day 3 started nice and slow. While we set up at 10:00, no one was really up and about. The Star Trek Fan Film Awards were at 12:30 and this year Axanar sponsored the awards by buying all the plaques.
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Way to come out ahead for the weekend.

Love how he accepted an award on behalf of Renegades after some of the things he has said about that project.
 
muCephi said:
The only way they could be convincing fans to give money at this point is if they are flat out lying to those fans by not disclosing critical information. At some point there is going to be true hell to pay for this doubled-down stage of the Axanar misconduct.
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Wow, how the hell can people still be donating to Peters. The lawsuit was all over the news, even the mainstream news, so people would have to be pretty clueless to actually donate now.
Nerys Myk said:
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That is actually shockingly appropriate for this situation.
 
Sgt_G said:
Wow. They raise "almost $500" in a three-day event. Amazing.

I would have found it mildly interesting if they had raised $5,000. To be "awesome", they should have raised at least $15,000 and more like $25,000 - $50,000, no?

Way to come out ahead for the weekend.

Love how he accepted an award on behalf of Renegades after some of the things he has said about that project.
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Sure the donors are loving all the money that has been spent on the Axanar feature.
 
JD said:
Wow, how the hell can people still be donating to Peters. The lawsuit was all over the news, even the mainstream news, so people would have to be pretty clueless to actually donate now.
That is actually shockingly appropriate for this situation.
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The Kool-Aid is surprisingly strong
 
SuperSpaceMan said:
I don't know... I think it all depends on what it is CBS/Paramount wanted when they went into this back in December...

Listening to the latest T&G show, I think it was Terri (it might have been Janet though) who went through why they were suing... Money was part of it... Quality was another... but the big thing that was said, was they don't want to compete with their own brand... Further, especially since this is the 50th, I don't think either part wants to compete with their own brand on such a HUGE anniversary.. Every dollar spent on Axanar, is potentially a dollar taken away from CBS/Paramount. With the first half of the movie, supposed to be released in the weeks before Beyond, with the second half in the winter, (just before Serise VI premiers) I imagine, just keeping the film from being produced would be what they are after. And I suspect, they just didn't C&D the thing, because they knew after talking with Peters back in August, that wouldn't be sufficient. But that's just my opinion...
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It's not about competition, though. The trailer alone got MILLIONS of views in a short time compared to the thousands of views Prelude got. So, there's no competition. CBS/Paramount isn't afraid that some dollar they won't get. (Besides, Axanar was going to be released for free--that's an aspect of their defense.)

The suit is about theft. Period. The guy was trying to build a studio--for future profit--off the backs of someone else's property. He crossed a line. I suspect CBS/Paramount didn't want others starting their own little businesses.

Say Peters hadn't crossed a line, and he made Axanar: do you honestly think it would make the tiniest dent in the box office of Star Trek Beyond?

It's not about keeping the film from being made because it's competition, it's about keeping the film from being made because he was stealing their IP for financial gain--salary, trips, to build a business.
 
HMS Ark Royal said:
*raises hand*

Excuse me, Madam Chief Justice Jespah, but one of the arguments is that they are not violating IP or trademarks. On an image publically shown online one of the banners/posters at their stand is showing the words "Star Trek" with the Enterprise/Federation logo and in a well known Star Trek typeface. Is that a violation of IP and/or copyright?
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Well, of course it's an IP infringement (I almost wrote unfriendment - take of that what you will).

It's likely that CBS/Paramount are waiting on defense settlement overtures rather than making their own. 'Course I am not in the room, either, but settlement can often be another excuse for posturing. Whoever offers first is generally believed to be the one with the weaker case - and we know (at least from AP himself) that the defense offered even before the pro bono counsel were retained.

So it may go something like this.

Defense: We'd like to settle.
Plaintiffs: We're listening.
Defense: My client is very sorry and will never, ever do it again.
Plaintiffs: No.
Defense: My client is very sorry and will take the name Star Trek off even the older stuff.
Plaintiffs: No.
Defense: My client is very sorry and will take the name off plus he won't go to the 2017 Vegas convention.
Plaintiffs: No.

Etc. etc. etc.

But that's the way this all works; the weaker side offered something small and they are shot down. They offer more and are shot down again, etc. The defense is waiting for the plaintiffs to say something more like, well maybe or let us think it over or we'll be in touch. That isn't necessarily a meeting of the minds, either, but it signals that they're getting warmer.
 
Jay said:
Not sure you can ding someone on having stuff that has Trek logos on it at a SciFi convention.
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You certainly could, they used to go after logos and fonts on small fan websites with C&D letters. Conventions are usually a cornucopia of copyright violations anyway. Stall after stall selling artwork, replicas, shirts, Cosplay items, and other merchandise trading off the IP of dozens of companies without a licence in sight. Generally, the copyright holders seem to quietly ignore these practices, which probably only goes to show how much Axanar must have pissed them off.
 
cultcross said:
You certainly could, they used to go after logos and fonts on small fan websites with C&D letters. Conventions are usually a cornucopia of copyright violations anyway. Stall after stall selling artwork, replicas, shirts, Cosplay items, and other merchandise trading off the IP of dozens of companies without a licence in sight. Generally, the copyright holders seem to quietly ignore these practices, which probably only goes to show how much Axanar must have pissed them off.
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There is an artist named Bryan K. Singer who has created a series of sorts named "Little Kylo" - Kylo Ren and other Star Wars characters drawn in the style of Bill Watterson the creator of "Calvin and Hobbes."
His work is quite good, and he sells it on various web portals, but I wonder if he will ever get the C&D hammer from Watterson or Disney or both.
 
Professor Zoom said:
CBS/Paramount basically hold all the cards. Why would they want to come to the table?
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Because it costs money.... Yes, CBS/Paramount holds the cards, but litigation is still costly, and they are limited to amount they can extract from Axanar, and Peters (Blood from a stone and all). So, if they have a specific goal in mind , if they get close to that, not spending the money to go into discovery, would give CBS/Paramount motivation to settle....
 
SuperSpaceMan said:
Because it costs money.... Yes, CBS/Paramount holds the cards, but litigation is still costly, and they are limited to amount they can extract from Axanar, and Peters (Blood from a stone and all). So, if they have a specific goal in mind , if they get close to that, not spending the money to go into discovery, would give CBS/Paramount motivation to settle....
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This case will result in a financial "loss" ( for a good cause, but a loss nonetheless) so if there is a way to stem the bleeding, I think CBS will take it - but they won't take anything less than unconditional Axanar surrender, so the bleeding will be a bit heavy before it is finally stopped.
 
SuperSpaceMan said:
I am not in the room either, but I suspect both sides would prefer to settle this before discovery, as that can get expensive.. especially considering Lead Counsel for the plaintiffs lives in NY.

Further, since CBS doesn't give guidelines on "Fan Films" I am not sure how they can really expect to enforce that second line. As much as I think CBS would love to "Pete Rose" Peters from Star Trek, I don't know just how enforceable that could be. They may be able to keep him from any official capacity in any officially licensed Trek Conventions, but could they say keep him from showing up as a regular paying guest.. or keep him from participating in any Cons that aren't licensed by CBS (Comicon for example).

It's really hard to really speculate what CBS/Paramount's end game in this is, because they have been good little clients and kept their mouths shut. It's a shame Peters hasn't said what his first settlement offer to CBS was, it might give insight to how long/far they would take this case.
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CBS doesn't give written guidelines for fan films; but if they announce publically as part of the have barred Mr. Peters from financial participation in any Star Trek venture in the future - I have a feeling fan film groups would 'get the message' and were Mr. Peters to become involved - you could imply a fan film group that allows him to participate would see an official C&D order - or a lawsuit; and if it was a Star Tre Convention or Auction you might see legitimate C/P support fall away from said Convention or Auction (were he found to be an organizer or volunteer in any capacity.) Mr. Peters would effectively be Blacklisted.

And C/P's endgame is to send a message that if you get enough of their attention, and don't listen to what they tell you (although that will never be 'officially in writing') - you WILL be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. C/P didn't take this action frivolously or lightly; and at this point it's beyond giving Axanar Productions/Mr. Peters a slap on the wrist. C/P are out to make a clear statement that they OWN the Star Trek IP.
 
SuperSpaceMan said:
Because it costs money.... Yes, CBS/Paramount holds the cards, but litigation is still costly, and they are limited to amount they can extract from Axanar, and Peters (Blood from a stone and all). So, if they have a specific goal in mind , if they get close to that, not spending the money to go into discovery, would give CBS/Paramount motivation to settle....
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I don't think they are worried about recouping money. Unless this starts getting into the millions of dollars, this is a business expense. This is a write off. They make billions of dollars. They aren't interested in recouping... well, what? It's not like he stole cash from them, he used their IP for his own gain. They want to send a message loud and clear: you cannot take their IP and profit from it in anyway. And if it costs them a little bit (and remember, they make billions), so they don't have this problem again down the road. Worth it.
 
Professor Zoom said:
I don't think they are worried about recouping money. Unless this starts getting into the millions of dollars, this is a business expense. This is a write off. They make billions of dollars. They aren't interested in recouping... well, what? It's not like he stole cash from them, he used their IP for his own gain. They want to send a message loud and clear: you cannot take their IP and profit from it in anyway. And if it costs them a little bit (and remember, they make billions), so they don't have this problem again down the road. Worth it.
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This.

This simply isn't about money they can recover from Peters, this is about putting a legal stamp on when one has gone too far.
 
BillJ said:
This.

This simply isn't about money they can recover from Peters, this is about putting a legal stamp on when one has gone too far.
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Exactly. A part of this is scale. Axanar raised 1 million dollars. CBS paid Charlie Sheen almost TWICE that per episode of Two and A Half Men. Axanar is fighting someone with very deep pockets who are more interested in setting an example than recouping money. (Not that they won't take the money.)
 
So someone in the CBS/Paramount v Axanar Facebook group posted a picture of Alec Peters accepting an award for "Star Trek: Renegades," saying he was the only representative of that production there.

That's interesting. Peters is still involved with Renegades?
 
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