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CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

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That one will make the die-hards howl! :lol:
Especially when they find the email below

From: fatcatexec@paramount.com
To: fatcatexec@skydance.com
CC: jjabrams@destroyingyourchildhood.com

Re: Gene Roddenberry's vision for Star Trek.

F*** that self absorbed rapist. Give me more pew-pew and boobs.
Love the brewery look. Lets make the bridge look like one of those hipster restaurants - that ought to get the kiddies to buy a ticket. Oh, and I think those space elf vampires look weird with regular color skin - let's make 'em blue.
That's all for now, I'm off to light my cigar with the last copy of the official rules for fan films. F*** those hippies.
 
The flaw in this argument is that copyright allows that the IP holders CAN choose 1 or all in the pack of "speeders". They are not bound by law to prosecute lawsuits uniformly. They can pick who they want to go after.
Agreed. My point was, some leeway may be given for speeding "a little bit." Indeed, it's part of the driving culture in most areas that in good driving conditions, a few miles an hour over the speed limit will be allowed, and a pack of cars running at that speed will seldom get anyone in the pack pulled over (even though each individual driver knows he's speeding and could blame no one but himself for being the unlucky one who does get caught).

The thing in Peters' case is he stood out so far from the other "mild" speeders that one couldn't look the other way about it. I may not choose to sue any of the other fan films for IP infringement because, to continue the metaphor, they are all "mild" speeders, it's not worth my time to stop them even if I rightfully can, and they're not really driving unsafe, anyway. Now, if I were one of those "mild" speeders who was singled out and pulled over by CBS/P (say, "Horizon") and Peters ( Axanar) got by unscathed driving at supersonic speed, I would be pretty angry even if I am technically guilty of speeding, too. That was my point.
 
Especially when they find the email below

From: fatcatexec@paramount.com
To: fatcatexec@skydance.com
CC: jjabrams@destroyingyourchildhood.com

Re: Gene Roddenberry's vision for Star Trek.

F*** that self absorbed rapist. Give me more pew-pew and boobs.
Love the brewery look. Lets make the bridge look like one of those hipster restaurants - that ought to get the kiddies to buy a ticket. Oh, and I think those space elf vampires look weird with regular color skin - let's make 'em blue.
That's all for now, I'm off to light my cigar with the last copy of the official rules for fan films. F*** those hippies.

"Are those comments a part of the record?"

"Yes, they're on the record!"

st-menagerie15.jpg
 
The thing that jumps out at me is this: Take any one of the exhibits by itself and no big deal. Put any of them together and it starts to look like Star Trek. Trek is so ingrained in popular culture that almost everyone is familiar with at least a few of those terms.

If I didn't know better I'd almost think that W&S are trying to lose this case. :lol:
Exactly (I mean re the first paragraph)!

The argument, so far as I have been able to ascertain, is that the constituent elements are not copyrightable. In many instances, that's true. E. g. the shade of Orion green is not going to be copyrightable, if someone were to argue that. The issue is that an IP, particularly a complicated IP of long standing, with a few hundred broadcasts and books to its name, not to mention toys, posters, apparel, and on and on and on, is a synergy. It is far more than the sum of its parts.
 
My favorite thing is how he mentions Star Trek Renegades all the time, yet when he was masquerading as "Red Omega" here last summer, he would constantly shit all over that project whenever he could. Class act, that guy.
Saw Renegades and what a disaster. Story is weak, script sucks, characters are uninteresting, and more fan service than any 10 fan films combined. Editing was awful, and the direction was lousy. Barely better than Of Gods and Men which was awful. People who worked on the film said behind the scenes was a nightmare.
Grand ambitions but Sky Conway is no film maker.
Yup, and this shit does not go unnoticed either.

And, to echo a previous poster here. The money raised actually goes to make and complete the fucking production! The money is not to pay salaries, or to build a 'for profit studio', it's for the dam production so can get done sometime this decade. ;)

You want transparency? Here is the completed film, is that transparent enough for you my lord?
I think a lot of Alec's b.s. is coming back to haunt him in spades, especially the way he talks about his fellow Trekkers and treatment of donors questioning his actions.
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I think a lot of Alec's b.s. is coming back to haunt him in spades, especially the way he talks about his fellow Trekkers and treatment of donors questioning his actions.
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Now if people would just open their eyes, wake up and pay attention to stuff like this..........
 
Now if people would just open their eyes, wake up and pay attention to stuff like this..........

its purely a matter of how visible these events are. a few on youtube will educate others that they can youtube their experiences, and after a bit there will be dozens of alec dialogs, and then a "putdowns by alec" channel.

I look at this above example and think "this is a person who decries Trump?"
 
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lets examine W&S copyright claims, as applied to themselves:

websites are made of words and most words can't be copyrighted.
http://www.copyright.gov/title37/202/37cfr202-1.html
didn't they quote from the code?

And consider the below logically complete sub-element excerpt of words from the W&S website, a menu list on the homepage.

"CLIENT LOGIN
  • Copyright © 2016. Winston & Strawn LLP

How can it be argued that this is sufficiently unique as words or as a collection of words, as to merit copyright protection?

Using W&S logic, isn't that what W&S is asserting by them invoking copyright on their website? Oh, its not? The site is copyrighted because of something larger than the smallest identifiable atoms and functional units? Mmm-hmm...
 
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Gotta love the loyalists...



So... if they don't see things our way, we're going to drag them through the mud? Sounds like True Trek spirit if I ever heard it and does "Roddenberry's Vision" proud.

The big reveal will be that Paramount had its own Star Trek twitterbot AI, but all it did was retweet the same "Keeping up with the Cardassians" joke, and talk about how great John Gill was. At least until a twitter user convinced it that it wasn't perfect and it destroyed itself.
 
Hi, all:

After a long break, I’m just chiming in here to offer some guidance on what W&S is trying to do in their motion to dismiss (and why it’s a huge fallacy, albeit a valiant attempt to make a purse out of the sow’s ear they were given.) Frankly, a good many people here already sussed out the rationale for this, so my comments are more support of what others have said, rather than “schooling” anybody. Most peoples’ instinct around here are right on the money, even if based more on just plain old common sense than any legal training.

Here’s why the nit-picky “no element of Star Trek cited by the Plaintiffs is copyrightable” is a bust of an argument from a legal perspective.

1. First, you have to start with the “idea-expression dichotomy” embodied in the U.S. Copyright Act (17 USC 102(b).) In short, no one can claim a copyright in an idea; ideas are free for everyone to use. However, the particular way one person expresses an idea – the creative choices he or she makes to express an idea– is protectable by copyright.

2. Next, let’s look at things from the other end – how a plaintiff proves that his or her copyright is infringed and wins the case. There are two ways – through “direct evidence” of copying and, where there is no direct proof, by circumstantial evidence of copying:

a. “Direct evidence” – believe it or not, this is actually pretty strict – you really need a confession by a person that he copies, or a photo of them engaged in the act of copying etc. Such direct evidence is actually rare.

b. “Circumstantial evidence” - When you don’t have “direct evidence”, the law allows you to raise an inference that copying occurred through circumstantial evidence if you show two things:

i. The defendant had access to your copyrighted work, and

ii. The defendant’s work is “substantially similar” to your work.

You get the drift? Even without any direct evidence of copying, the law will let you prove your case if you can show its more likely than not the defendant copied your work because he or she was exposed to your work in some way and came up with something substantially similar to it – the idea being that it beggars the imagination that it could only be sheer coincidence that their work was so similar to your work. In the present case, it’s clear SuperStarTrekFan Alec had access to the Star Trek works , and the work he has/is/might-maybe-someday-create is substantially similar to Star Trek.

Unfortunately, the inquiry doesn’t end there. Plaintiff only wins if he can show that the “substantial similarity” arises from copying of the copyrightable elements of his work. Since anyone is free to use ideas or uncopyrightable material, there is no infringement unless something that is proprietary to the Plaintiff is copied.

So this is the basis for Ranahan’s breaking everything down to its most basic level and point-by-point claiming each constitutent part is unprotectable. “You say we copied the word ‘Vulcan’? ‘Vulcan is a god’s name.” “You say we copied pointy ears? Wombats have pointy ears.” In short, she’s trying to state that any similarities are due to unprotectable elements. But I know you all get that.

But here’s the rub, and the fallacy in her argument, and why I think it will ultimately go down in flames. The law recognizes that “copyrightable expression” is by definition made up of a combination of uncopyrightable components. In fact, that’s what “copyrightable expression” is – the specific, creative way that one person chooses to combine those uncopyrightable components to express an idea. Let’s face it – it’s black letter law that single words and short phrases are not copyrightable. But a novel – which consists of nothing more than a creative combination of uncopyrightable words and phrases – is 100% copyrightable. Same thing for music – single notes are not copyrightable and there are only twelve notes in the entire (Western) musical scale – but there are thousands of creative combinations of those notes, and thousands of copyrighted songs. Thousands of different ways of expression, all built from the same public-domain pieces. It’s the choices and combinations that are copyrightable.

And just like you can’t avoid copyright infringement in a song by claiming “well, A-flat has been used before, and C-sharp has been used before” and knocking out through all other ten individual notes in the scale the same way – you can’t avoid copyright infringement for a Vulcan character by saying “Vulcan is a god’s name, and wombats have pointy ears, and people have been logical since before Socrates.” Because what is protected by copyright is the overall expression – the creative choices the authors made – to express their own unique conception of an alien race by combining preexisting elements in a creative way. Alien races can come in all shapes and forms – the bug-eyed “grays”, the fat Jabba the Hutts, the warlike Xenomorphs, the lovable E.T. and so on. C/P’s protected expression in their “alien” consists of the sum of the creative, original choices they made to express an alien that is logical, aloof, and peaceful with pointy ears and greenish skin.

If – using Vulcans as just one example - C/P can show that one ground of substantial similarity between ST and Axanar is that both contain an alien that is logical, aloof, and peaceful with pointy ears and greenish skin, then this will raise a legal inference that C/P’s copyrightable expression was copied – and no amount of trying to tear down the individual components (claiming “no individual note of the song is copyrightable, and no individual word in the book is copyrightable”) is going to save Axanar. As noted above, if the “system” worked any differently, then no book, play, song or poem would be copyrightable. Luckily, that's not how the system works.

M

(And just to prove my point - the post above is my copyrightable expression of my ideas, even though it's made up entirely of public-domain words. And anybody who quotes my post - in whole or in part - in any subsequent post is gonna get the living bejesus sued out of them by me. Eh, I'm just joshin' with ya. Just wanted to see if anyone managed to read this far without falling asleep.)
 
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So, the million dollar question: why on earth is a rising star IP expert attorney making a set of arguments which are ridiculous on their face?

Fifteen minutes of fame... or, and this is a wild guess, Alec hired her/the firm knowing they'd lose so he could then sue for crap lawyer skills in not winning the case for him so he gets a payout whatever happens
 
So, the million dollar question: why on earth is a rising star IP expert attorney making a set of arguments which are ridiculous on their face (so to speak :borg:)?

As @jespah has noted before - she took a case, and she has an ethical duty to defend her client zealously. And, on her face, the argument would hold some water in a conceptual sense if the plaintiff's didn't push back on it by pointing to the overall expression and shifting the focus from her nitty-gritty approach. Like I said, sometimes you get a sow's ear, and your job as an attorney is to do whatever you can to make even a half-assed purse out of it. And cases have been won just as often by the plaintiff falling asleep and not rebutting a weak argument as they have been by the defendant making a strong, sound argument.

But the bigger reason? She's not trying to win at trial. She's not trying to set precedent. She's trying to drag this out as long as possible to avoid having to file an answer. Once an answer is filed, discovery starts and things get costly. I think her hope has always been to get a "victory" for her client by stalling and affording time for the parties to come to a settlement (or, as Alec dreams, for the fans to rise up and smite C/P). This is also entirely ethically permissible conduct for an attorney, as minimizing liability for a client is just as much a part of "zealous representation" as outright victory on the merits. No different that a criminal defense attorney with a client who is clearly guilty of homicide - even if the attorney can't get an acquittal, his duty to "zealously defend" encompasses taking steps to introduce factors mitigating for a lighter sentence, or to claim procedural defects, etc.

M
 
Mike Bawden, the Axanar PR person, has been good to his word so far about allowing everyone to comment now in the various articles and blogs on the Axanar website.

How long it lasts is anyone's guess?
 
So, the million dollar question: why on earth is a rising star IP expert attorney making a set of arguments which are ridiculous on their face (so to speak :borg:)?
Choose any or all of the above (in no particular order):
  1. Some form of argument must be made, as defendants are entitled to a zealous defense (and we legal types are required by the Code of Professional Responsibility to offer same
  2. This case is more about the nerdy or fanficcing or free speechifying folks who will come down the pike later and will need defenses and can/will engage the firm's services and not for pro bono publico (like it or not, lawyers do have to advertise their wares, and sometimes it can be in a roundabout fashion)
  3. The desire to try to chip away at what @mkstewartesq wrote (see, I'm giving you credit. Please don't sue me. I like my house. :)), e. g. maybe some sort of argument will be bought and a precedent, however narrow and flimsy, will be set
  4. Maybe she thinks it really will fly
  5. Aliens, generic or otherwise
  6. What @mkstewartesq said
 
But the bigger reason? She's not trying to win at trial. She's not trying to set precedent. She's trying to drag this out as long as possible to avoid having to file an answer. Once an answer is filed, discovery starts and things get costly. I think her hope has always been to get a "victory" for her client by stalling and affording time for the parties to come to a settlement ...... This is also entirely ethically permissible conduct for an attorney, as minimizing liability for a client is just as much a part of "zealous representation" as outright victory on the merits. No different that a criminal defense attorney with a client who is clearly guilty of homicide - even if the attorney can't get an acquittal, his duty to "zealously defend" encompasses taking steps to introduce factors mitigating for a lighter sentence, or to claim procedural defects, etc.
Absolutely. I can picture that scenario playing out here. Possibly right now.

Choose any or all of the above (in no particular order):
2. This case is more about the nerdy or fanficcing or free speechifying folks who will come down the pike later and will need defenses and can/will engage the firm's services and not for pro bono publico (like it or not, lawyers do have to advertise their wares, and sometimes it can be in a roundabout fashion)
3. e. g. maybe some sort of argument will be bought and a precedent, however narrow and flimsy, will be set.
#2 & #3. Here's where I'm laying odds. That their idea of a possible #3 ("however narrow and flimsy") has been weighed and bet on by them before deciding to GO for this one because of the #2 really big future client payoffs to the firm it would be sure to bring in.
4. Maybe she thinks it really will fly
I can't even imagine how this would ever cross their minds.
Sure. I picture this as their current backup Plan B 'Win' if their Plan A for #s 2&3 falls short. Bringing in both future Plaintiff and Defense cases. Plaintiff: Sue high/settle low with still a large financial payout to the firm. Defense: Stall pick stall pick until the case settles with reduced damages for their client who knew it could have been so much worse without W&S, and still a large financial payout to the firm.
 
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Mike Bawden, the Axanar PR person, has been good to his word so far about allowing everyone to comment now in the various articles and blogs on the Axanar website.

How long it lasts is anyone's guess?

I'm not a donor, so I'm not reading their discussions. Are the zealous among the fans self-policing the rest now? Are any real questions getting on the table?
 
Hi, all:

After a long break, I’m just chiming in here to offer some guidance on what W&S is trying to do in their motion to dismiss (and why it’s a huge fallacy, albeit a valiant attempt to make a purse out of the sow’s ear they were given.) Frankly, a good many people here already sussed out the rationale for this, so my comments are more support of what others have said, rather than “schooling” anybody. Most peoples’ instinct around here are right on the money, even if based more on just plain old common sense than any legal training.

Here’s why the nit-picky “no element of Star Trek cited by the Plaintiffs is copyrightable” is a bust of an argument from a legal perspective.

1. First, you have to start with the “idea-expression dichotomy” embodied in the U.S. Copyright Act (17 USC 102(b).) In short, no one can claim a copyright in an idea; ideas are free for everyone to use. However, the particular way one person expresses an idea – the creative choices he or she makes to express an idea– is protectable by copyright.

2. Next, let’s look at things from the other end – how a plaintiff proves that his or her copyright is infringed and wins the case. There are two ways – through “direct evidence” of copying and, where there is no direct proof, by circumstantial evidence of copying:

a. “Direct evidence” – believe it or not, this is actually pretty strict – you really need a confession by a person that he copies, or a photo of them engaged in the act of copying etc. Such direct evidence is actually rare.

b. “Circumstantial evidence” - When you don’t have “direct evidence”, the law allows you to raise an inference that copying occurred through circumstantial evidence if you show two things:

i. The defendant had access to your copyrighted work, and

ii. The defendant’s work is “substantially similar” to your work.

You get the drift? Even without any direct evidence of copying, the law will let you prove your case if you can show its more likely than not the defendant copied your work because he or she was exposed to your work in some way and came up with something substantially similar to it – the idea being that it beggars the imagination that it could only be sheer coincidence that their work was so similar to your work. In the present case, it’s clear SuperStarTrekFan Alec had access to the Star Trek works , and the work he has/is/might-maybe-someday-create is substantially similar to Star Trek.

Unfortunately, the inquiry doesn’t end there. Plaintiff only wins if he can show that the “substantial similarity” arises from copying of the copyrightable elements of his work. Since anyone is free to use ideas or uncopyrightable material, there is no infringement unless something that is proprietary to the Plaintiff is copied.

So this is the basis for Ranahan’s breaking everything down to its most basic level and point-by-point claiming each constitutent part is unprotectable. “You say we copied the word ‘Vulcan’? ‘Vulcan is a god’s name.” “You say we copied pointy ears? Wombats have pointy ears.” In short, she’s trying to state that any similarities are due to unprotectable elements. But I know you all get that.

But here’s the rub, and the fallacy in her argument, and why I think it will ultimately go down in flames. The law recognizes that “copyrightable expression” is by definition made up of a combination of uncopyrightable components. In fact, that’s what “copyrightable expression” is – the specific, creative way that one person chooses to combine those uncopyrightable components to express an idea. Let’s face it – it’s black letter law that single words and short phrases are not copyrightable. But a novel – which consists of nothing more than a creative combination of uncopyrightable words and phrases – is 100% copyrightable. Same thing for music – single notes are not copyrightable and there are only twelve notes in the entire (Western) musical scale – but there are thousands of creative combinations of those notes, and thousands of copyrighted songs. Thousands of different ways of expression, all built from the same public-domain pieces. It’s the choices and combinations that are copyrightable.

And just like you can’t avoid copyright infringement in a song by claiming “well, A-flat has been used before, and C-sharp has been used before” and knocking out through all other ten individual notes in the scale the same way – you can’t avoid copyright infringement for a Vulcan character by saying “Vulcan is a god’s name, and wombats have pointy ears, and people have been logical since before Socrates.” Because what is protected by copyright is the overall expression – the creative choices the authors made – to express their own unique conception of an alien race by combining preexisting elements in a creative way. Alien races can come in all shapes and forms – the bug-eyed “grays”, the fat Jabba the Hutts, the warlike Xenomorphs, the lovable E.T. and so on. C/P’s protected expression in their “alien” consists of the sum of the creative, original choices they made to express an alien that is logical, aloof, and peaceful with pointy ears and greenish skin.

If – using Vulcans as just one example - C/P can show that one ground of substantial similarity between ST and Axanar is that both contain an alien that is logical, aloof, and peaceful with pointy ears and greenish skin, then this will raise a legal inference that C/P’s copyrightable expression was copied – and no amount of trying to tear down the individual components (claiming “no individual note of the song is copyrightable, and no individual word in the book is copyrightable”) is going to save Axanar. As noted above, if the “system” worked any differently, then no book, play, song or poem would be copyrightable. Luckily, that's not how the system works.

M

(And just to prove my point - the post above is my copyrightable expression of my ideas, even though it's made up entirely of public-domain words. And anybody who quotes my post - in whole or in part - in any subsequent post is gonna get the living bejesus sued out of them by me. Eh, I'm just joshin' with ya. Just wanted to see if anyone managed to read this far without falling asleep.)

:shifty: :whistle: :D ;)
 
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