CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[muCephi]

I have no memory of Alec ever stating in any of the crowdfunding campaigns that "Axanar is being operated as a non profit." It's only recently he was that explicit. Material misrepresentation?

Even if he said he was operating that way, he apparently didn't obtain nonprofit status for Axanar Productions in 2015, so all that would be concealed would be his aspirational statement that they were operating as a nonprofit. And even then, his definition of 'nonprofit' seems to be "after I spend all the money there is none left, *nonprofit!*". So even if the donors heard the nonprofit statement (which they probably heard over and over on the Facebook postings), it STILL wouldn't mean anything other than just running a business.

 

[muCephi]

I seriously doubt ANYTHING was 'put in writing/e-mail' by CBS regarding Star Trek fan because such could be inferred as some sort of implicit authorization of 'fan films' in general.

Yes, the guideline of not saying anything I believe I have also heard, but you know how things go... they could have implied it in a meeting quite strongly but if Axanar wanted to play a game of "unless you are explicit we are declaring you said nothing", both sides would probably have just abandoned the meeting contents at the time. That doesn't mean there isn't a record and something after the fact that could add to a conclusion Axanar probably should have concluded they had boundaries other than their chosen ones.

Its all speculation of course.

 

[jespah]

Even if he said he was operating that way, he apparently didn't obtain nonprofit status for Axanar Productions in 2015, so all that would be concealed would be his aspirational statement that they were operating as a nonprofit. And even then, his definition of 'nonprofit' is "after I spend all the money there is none left, *nonprofit!*". So even if the donors heard the nonprofit statement (which they probably heard over and over on the Facebook postings), it STILL wouldn't mean anything you could pin down.

Plus it may or may not be something the donors relied on. Certainly donations preceding that statement can't be said to be retroactively reliant upon it. E. g. the statement is made on April 4, any donations up to and including April 3 cannot, by definition, be reliant upon the April 4th statement. But this all goes to the amount of damages. If there's one donation after April 4 and it's reliant upon a material misrepresentation, then ....

 

[muCephi]

Plus it may or may not be something the donors relied on. Certainly donations preceding that statement can't be said to be retroactively reliant upon it. E. g. the statement is made on April 4, any donations up to and including April 3 cannot, by definition, be reliant upon the April 4th statement. But this all goes to the amount of damages. If there's one donation after April 4 and it's reliant upon a material misrepresentation, then ....

I had certainly wondered whether donors took all the talk about "nonprofit" to mean they were donating to a legal nonprofit, and would submit the donation as such to the IRS and potentially get burned. It seemed like a pretty reckless thing to be saying all over the place, even if every once in a while you also mentioned that your application was still "in the process of being prepared" (not even submitted yet). One might argue that the phrase "operating as..." constitutes warning and qualification to people that you aren't granted exemption, but that's a rice-paper thickness of ice to walk upon.

 

[Jedi_Master]

What do you call a cult who's leader just died?

Non-prophet.

 

[BillJ]

I seriously doubt ANYTHING was 'put in writing/e-mail' by CBS regarding Star Trek fan because such could be inferred as some sort of implicit authorization of 'fan films' in general.

I don't know? CBS said they communicated with him...

https://www.thewrap.com/how-1-1-million-star-trek-fan-movie-has-escaped-studio-shutdown-so-far/

“CBS has not authorized, sanctioned or licensed this project in any way, and this has been communicated to those involved,” a representative from the network told TheWrap. “We continue to object to professional commercial ventures trading off our property rights and are considering further options to protect these rights.” (Paramount did not return TheWrap’s request for comment.) - See more at: https://www.thewrap.com/how-1-1-mil...-studio-shutdown-so-far/#sthash.ZFyVeZWO.dpuf

 

[muCephi]

I don't know? CBS said they communicated with him...

https://www.thewrap.com/how-1-1-million-star-trek-fan-movie-has-escaped-studio-shutdown-so-far/

That definitely is the August 2015 statement that I am imagining could be held up as necessary to communicate to donors through the 'risks' section of the Kickstarter, and certainly the Indiegogo.

 

[Campe]

I don't know? CBS said they communicated with him...

https://www.thewrap.com/how-1-1-million-star-trek-fan-movie-has-escaped-studio-shutdown-so-far/

But communications can mean so many different things:

- E-mail
- Tweet
- Facebook message
- Instagram image
- Phone call
- Letter
- Voicemail
- Stone tablets
- Graffiti
- Carrier pigeon
- Cave drawings
- Smoke signals
- Non-verbal communication.

Just sayin'.

 

[Jedi_Master]

But communications can mean so many different things:

- E-mail
- Tweet
- Facebook message
- Instagram image
- Phone call
- Letter
- Voicemail
- Stone tablets
- Graffiti
- Carrier pigeon
- Cave drawings
- Smoke signals
- Non-verbal communication.

Just sayin'.

You forgot those little Valentine's Day candies - you know the ones that say things like

LOVE
YOU

and

U
STOLE MY
IP

 

[carlosp]

But communications can mean so many different things:

- E-mail
- Tweet
- Facebook message
- Instagram image
- Phone call
- Letter
- Voicemail
- Stone tablets
- Graffiti
- Carrier pigeon
- Cave drawings
- Smoke signals
- Non-verbal communication.

Just sayin'.

Except we know Alec Peters had met with CBS officials just before that statement was given to The Wrap.

 

[BillJ]

Except we know Alec Peters had met with CBS officials just before that statement was given to The Wrap.

Seems odd to send VP's from two divisions (one from New York) to a meeting if you're cool with what is going on.

Me thinks that Alec Peters may have been fibbing a bit about what was said in that meeting.

 

[Campe]

Except we know Alec Peters had met with CBS officials just before that statement was given to The Wrap.

"Ryan," let me have my joke!

 

[muCephi]

But communications can mean so many different things:

- E-mail
- Tweet
- Facebook message
- Instagram image
- Phone call
- Letter
- Voicemail
- Stone tablets
- Graffiti
- Carrier pigeon
- Cave drawings
- Smoke signals
- Non-verbal communication.

Just sayin'.

in the context of the crowdfunding pitch it probably needs to be in the Risks section, so that a donor is informed of the exposure before deciding to donate. But yes, a carrier pigeon sent to nonverbally head bob its impression of smoke signals carved in stone tablet graffiti might approach Axanar standards

You forgot those little Valentine's Day candies - you know the ones that say things like

LOVE
YOU

and

U
STOLE MY
IP

THANKS
FOR
SUSHI

Except we know Alec Peters had met with CBS officials just before that statement was given to The Wrap.

Seems odd to send VP's from two divisions (one from New York) to a meeting if you're cool with what is going on.

Me thinks that Alec Peters may have been fibbing a bit about what was said in that meeting.

Have to dig in Trek history books to find stories of studios being so intense with a producer

Even if no one took meeting notes, i think CBS participants still could be asked to affirm what happened for the record, if CBS thinks its helpful.

 

[BillJ]

Even if no one took meeting notes, i think participants still could be asked to affirm what happened, if CBS thinks its helpful.

I can't believe CBS walked out of that meeting with no proof of what was discussed. That is the ticking time bomb for Axanar.

 

[Jedi_Master]

I can't believe CBS walked out of that meeting with no proof of what was discussed. That is the ticking time bomb for Axanar.

Chuckle. I don't think there are any time bombs, just already dropped bombs.

 

[muCephi]

Chuckle. I don't think there are any time bombs, just already dropped bombs.

'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!

 

[Jedi_Master]

'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!

It's not dead - it's non-profit.

 

[muCephi]

I can't believe CBS walked out of that meeting with no proof of what was discussed. That is the ticking time bomb for Axanar.

Don't know how many places Alec related the meeting details, but one of them is in the bit of podcast I transcribed upstream. He said this:

You know, listen, I met with the people at CBS two weeks ago, and they said, look, they're not talking to us, ...

http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/cbs-paramount-sues-to-stop-axanar.278077/page-388#post-11458044
​

Did they fly in VPs just to say to him "we are not talking to you"? Hm.

 

[BillJ]

Did they fly in VPs just to say to him "we are not talking to you"? Hm.

Yeah. That makes zero sense. Something went on in that meeting and Peters has been lying to his donors since.

I guarantee it.

 

[Jedi_Master]

I am starting a new LikeStarter campaign "Help me get more likes than @BillJ "

Those who "like" this post with their primary account get lunch with me, Richard Hatch's former assistant's cousin, a picture of Boomer, and Mike Bawden (Axanar's criminally underpaid PR man) on speakerphone,

Those who "like" this post with their primary AND secret secondary account get the above rewards, PLUS a special patch (design to be revealed later), a DVD of screen caps from me refreshing the screen as the likes go up, and a hand drawn poster of my original design for the U.S.S. Zuckerberg.

Those who "like" this post with ALL their accounts get all the rewards above PLUS an honorary mention in my signature, automatic "like backs" for the next 6 months on all their posts, an honorary mention for them and another member of their choice in my status update, and a special edition DVD including the material mentioned in the last perk and BONUS commentary from three random strangers and a guy dressed up as Deadpool.

Disclaimer: all likes are the property of TBBS. If I am sued, likes WILL NOT BE RETURNED but instead will be sacrificed to satiate the rage of @T'Bonz.