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CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

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cultcross said:
Who decides who is a 'public figure'?
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Yeah, that's the crux of it. I'm offering a formula. If somoeone is a public figure then sharing and discussing publicly available information on them is to be expected.

cultcross said:
Alec Peters is fairly obscure even among minor internet personalities. How many people have to know you before you become a 'public figure' and therefore open to having anything that can be found out about you splashed across the internet perfectly ethically?
It's an artificial distinction used to justify the flagrant privacy violations of celebrities by the media. People, all people, should have the right to a private life. If there is a suspicion of wrongdoing, there are correct channels for that.
It is one thing to say 'this persons public creative work is derivative of CBS IP' or 'this persons public statement on the matter is a bit insane'. It is quite another to say 'hey look his home address is on the internet, take a look'.
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You're right about him being very obscure, relative to most ecelebs. And yes, everyone is entitled to privacy. But I'm trying to get at how web communities can balance the discussion of their posters with some ethical standards, and Alec Peters is at this point a very notable figure to us, if not the public at large. So sure, he's not a public figure, certainly not a celebrity, but we aren't the media and his address wasn't exactly published in the New York Times.

The correct channels are being followed, but both this site and Facebook are discussion forums, and people are going to talk and share what they know. It's inevitable. So, if it's going to happen anyway, let's do it properly. And, honestly, I think this could have turned out much worse. Peters actually comes out of this looking okay, since he did nothing wrong. And yeah, of course he's bothered by the scrutiny into the public details of his private life. I'd be to, but I'm not being sued by a mega corporation or threatening to drop the sword of Damocles upon an entire fan industry, so I wouldn't understand the scrutiny. But he should.
 
Ion said:
Then please be more clear about quotes and who you're responding to in the future, because you came off as attributing such sentiment to me, which I did not appreciate.
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Seemed fairly obvious given the thread of the conversation, but I have removed the quote if it makes you feel better.
 
SuperSpaceMan said:
I understand, I also understand that in Florida you have to use a physical address, not a PO box to register, your corporation. So Yes, he could have contacted a company that holds physical addresses for PO Boxes, but that's an additional expense. He wasn't necessarily aiming for confidentiality, rather to establish a legal holding for the house to separate it from his personal finances.

Again, I have a 5 year old, and if someone decided to put the link to my property records in a Facebook group of 250 or so people, whom, the majority, were critical of me/my actions, I would have a personal problem with that, and I would do anything within my power to try to get those links off of Facebook.

I am willing to empathize with Peters in this situation, because decency...
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Yeah, I've gotta go with empathy on this one myself. I've been there (Stupid online shit getting out of hand and threats---credible and not---made). If his family and their home got pulled into it, I'm going to say that I feel for the guy.
 
SeerSGB said:
Yeah, I've gotta go with empathy on this one myself. I've been there (Stupid online shit getting out of hand and threats---credible and not---made). If his family and their home got pulled into it, I'm going to say that I feel for the guy.
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True. That can be chilling to see a bunch of strangers speculating over a beloved family member's property. I felt bad for him over that, and would never like to see that happen to anyone.

That's why I feel as bad as I do about the whole thing. I was fine with the questions, but then I thought the property was some business holding. If I would have had any inkling it was a family member's home, I'd have burned the post myself. I probably should have went with that first instinct, but I wanted to be completely fair and open. It backfired.
 
Ion said:
If I came off as claiming that it was untrue, then I do apologize, Tom. That wasn't my intent. All I was pointing out is that anything that Peters says is, to me, in need of verification before I'll assign any veracity to it -- and that it would be the exact right thing to say by way of deflection, which gave me pause. Having yourself and one other confirm it, however, is enough for me to believe it (and I admittedly forgot that the other individual said something about that before I posted, which is my bad, so I apologize for that as well).
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FWIW, I wasn't specifically referring to you or any one person. Also, I'm not Tom, but thank you.

As to your other comments, I will say only that in my opinion, Alec had no malicious intent as regards the production of Axanar. His intention was always to produce the film he was promoting. Clearly others feel differently, that's their prerogative and their right, and I'm not going to argue about it.

I hope, for all concerned, this works out amicably. I have no wish to see anyone hurt or ruined by any of this.
 
USS Intrepid said:
FWIW, I wasn't specifically referring to you or any one person. Also, I'm not Tom, but thank you.

As to your other comments, I will say only that in my opinion, Alec had no malicious intent as regards the production of Axanar. His intention was always to produce the film he was promoting. Clearly others feel differently, that's their prerogative and their right.

I hope, for all concerned, this works out amicably. I have no wish to see anyone hurt or ruined by any of this.
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Amicable would be good but I think, and this is just my opinion, that the water is far too bitter for anything beneficial to come out of it for Axanar.
 
SeerSGB said:
Yeah, I've gotta go with empathy on this one myself. I've been there (Stupid online shit getting out of hand and threats---credible and not---made). If his family and their home got pulled into it, I'm going to say that I feel for the guy.
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Oh sure, me too. When I say that discussion of his stuff is inevitable, I'm not saying I'm happy that the internet allows mobs to dog-pile onto a person. Just that it's inevitable, and I've seen worse far worse, and Peter's has thus far gotten off easy relatively speaking. Stories abound of people being actually harassed, for years, after having their addresses posted. Internet trolls are vicious, and I've seen them at their worst. The fact that the Facebook group was taken down out of sensitivity towards the man demonstrates to me that he's gotten off lightly. Other "doxing victims" get it much worse.

It's just the state of the world in 2016 that this shit happens. Campaigns against "cyber-bullying" are everywhere, but I don't see how much can be done without censoring the web. We just live in strange times.

I can empathize with Peter's and feel sorry he has to worry about his safety or family. But he's certainly not special, and I can't just blame Michael Hinman for doing something wrong because he didn't do anything wrong. Anybody who would harass Peters' would be the ones guilty of wrongdoing, and anybody who wanted to do that doesn't need Michael Hinman to do so. I condemn harassment, but not discussion of notable persons, even uncomfortable ones.
 
USS Intrepid said:
FWIW, I wasn't specifically referring to you or any one person. Also, I'm not Tom, but thank you.
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Y'know, I'm not even sure where I got that from. It's been one of those days, and I usually can tell the two of you apart. Just not today apparently :p Sorry 'bout that, to both you and Tom. :)

USS Intrepid said:
As to your other comments, I will say only that in my opinion, Alec had no malicious intent as regards the production of Axanar. His intention was always to produce the film he was promoting. Clearly others feel differently, that's their prerogative and their right.
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I answer that question differently depending on the day. At the moment I feel that he's just really bad at managing large projects (and money), and has no perspective whatsoever when it comes to business and PR.

USS Intrepid said:
I hope, for all concerned, this works out amicably. I have no wish to see anyone hurt or ruined by any of this.
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Unfortunately, I think it's a bit late for that, and probably was the moment the lawsuit was filed. :(

I've given a lot of thought to the "ideal outcome" of this, and again, my opinion varies with the day (and the latest stories out of Camp Axanar). I would still like to see what Axanar could be. I like the concept. I liked Prelude. I would love to still see it made, but I put the probability of it near zero in light of the suit.

There's also that pie-in-the-sky dream of carving out a legal exception for fan films. It's possible that it could be done I think, but I also don't think I want Axanar being the representative case. Because I don't see Axanar as a fan film, and I don't see Peters as someone I want as the public face of fan films. And most importantly, I don't think it stands a chance of winning such an exception; not a sure thing by any means due to the surrounding profit issues.

I understand he's a friend of yours, and I can sympathize with that; I'm not trying to be mean here. But he has real issues in how he deals with the public, and that's coming from someone who walked into this with no pre-existing relationships in this community. I made my own judgement, largely on Alec's own behavior, so it's (hopefully) a somewhat objective conclusion to arrive at (and stands completely apart from whether or not he's a nice guy).

Yeah, that kind of went on a tangent. Sorry 'bout that. :)
 
Of the reasonably possible outcomes, and assuming their legal team does NOT have some miracle argument that wins the case outright -- the most ideal scenario for Axanar would be that CBS drops the request for monetary damages and settles-- Axanar agrees that they'll remove all Star Trek references and marks, and they produce a generic sci-fi movies that gets delivered to backers.

Axanar would alter any infringing rewards, destroy any remaining hard copies of "Prelude" and turn over all master files for destruction.

I'm not saying this has a real significant chance of happening, but it's within the realm of possibility.
 
USS Intrepid said:
As to your other comments, I will say only that in my opinion, Alec had no malicious intent as regards the production of Axanar. His intention was always to produce the film he was promoting.
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One could have a sincere intent to take one's friends to another city, but "borrow" a car to do so. Getting pulled over would not be a surprising consequence if one were to do this.
 
McCoyFan said:
Since the 'I Stand With CBS' FaceBook group has been taken down (apparently due to cyber-bullying of and threats to the group creator/Admin) a FB Page, 'I Stand With CBS & Paramount', has been created so that a wide audience can get factual updates about the case and links to intelligent articles on the matter: https://www.facebook.com/I-Stand-With-CBS-Paramount-935268353195243/
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Uhh, yeah, we've been discussing that since page 318. Who is running this one? What will be done differently than the first iteration?
 
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