CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[oswriter]

And saved himself the trouble of all this nonsense.

Kinda disproves his whole "I do this for love of Star Trek" nonsense.

Wait a minute. $16 million?!? Didn't he just go through bankruptcy proceedings? And had no assets? Or was that his other company Propwerx or whatever it's called?

Regardless, what's he doing with the $16 million that he couldn't drop into production of Axanar? Then again, I've heard: A producer never drops his money into a film.

Can anyone make any sense out of this?

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/vprr/0000/0505/05059249.pdf

It's a Form D. Basically, when you sell securities in a company in the United States, you have to register with the SEC. Smaller companies can take advantage of an exemption to this requirement by filing a Form D, which is basically a notice about the company's offering.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Then again, I've heard: A producer never drops his money into a film.

Real producer yeah I get it..........fan producer????

Must work in the A/C business

 

[The Transformed Man]

I'm out $160 for this shit show. Was really excited to see the finished product too...

These guys are just a fucking joke. I donated to both of the 'feature' fundraisers....so I'm not likely to see ANY of the 'perks'. Kind of wish I had some of the Prelude perks as 'collectible' relics/conversation pieces.

I found a quote of Alec Peters (GarthofIzar) on reddit saying "And yes, anyone who actually donated, can get a refund by asking." I doubt Peters will honor his word however you never know unless you ask.

He also says this, again...

 

[DCR]

Heck, not even saying it's a bad thing; it's fun to see "big budget" fan stuff made, but I don't like the threat it poses. The more money that goes into it, the more it has to make the IP owner consider going nuclear on all fan films.

Has there been a big-budget fan thing made yet that was worth it? The first Sky Conway film at best had some charm but I couldn't sit through Renegades. The first Starship Exeter was better than either of them. Is there even anything else?

It seems like the best approach is with a fan franchise is to start cheap, be productive, and scale up because amateur and ambitious writing and directing will inevitably lead to fanwank, which money will exacerbate.

I'd actually argue that STC has been big-budget (from a fan film perspective) since day one. New Voyages built their way up to their current size and budget level, but STC started with a high bar and just kept running with it.

However, I do think they're the one exception to date, and they're definitely producing a quality product.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

I find it interesting that he said I was supposedly working with him on the script for 6 months. That is not MY recollection at all. I don't know what time span it was over, but as he worked on it, he'd email me what he wrote and I'd give comments or suggestions from a writer's perspective because he was a friend of James Cawley's and was going to be doing this like James does New Voyages, and because Alec was friendly and listened to criticism (not always, but always nicely and politely) and while he didn't take all my advice because it was his work and not mine, I found him pleasant to chat with about it all.

As I said before, I do this for all sorts of folks, in email or in person (at writing workshops) and sometimes people offer to give me credit but I never am actually writing anything and it's not my work so I say it's not necessary. (To me, if I were writing it, I'd have a say as to what goes on the page, and that's not the case with any help I give. I just offer advice and suggestions from a CRAFT point of view.)

All that said, I am mystified by the attitude that even if CBS/Paramount say "stop this," the Axanar team wants to move forward. I don't get that. When you play in someone else's sandbox, and they turn a blind eye to it because you're not hurting them to do it, that's magnanimous of them. When the IP holder DOES say they have concerns and it's time for you to stop... YOU. STOP.

Just my two cents.

Without resorting to google, did you write the book where Worf was accused of murder?

 

[seigezunt]

I could have sworn I saw some language vis a vis the crowd funding that basically says "there is a risk." But people are thinking that the donors would still be able to sue for breach?

 

[DaveGalanter]

Without resorting to google, did you write the book where Worf was accused of murder?

If you're talking about "Foreign Foes," yes. It was my first book when I was about 22 years old. Please, forgive it. :-)

Here is what I've done:

http://www.shore-leave.com/guests/dave-galanter.htm

 

[oswriter]

Heck, not even saying it's a bad thing; it's fun to see "big budget" fan stuff made, but I don't like the threat it poses. The more money that goes into it, the more it has to make the IP owner consider going nuclear on all fan films.

Has there been a big-budget fan thing made yet that was worth it? The first Sky Conway film at best had some charm but I couldn't sit through Renegades. The first Starship Exeter was better than either of them. Is there even anything else?

It seems like the best approach is with a fan franchise is to start cheap, be productive, and scale up because amateur and ambitious writing and directing will inevitably lead to fanwank, which money will exacerbate.

I'd actually argue that STC has been big-budget (from a fan film perspective) since day one. New Voyages built their way up to their current size and budget level, but STC started with a high bar and just kept running with it.

However, I do think they're the one exception to date, and they're definitely producing a quality product.

And based on their tax filings, STC's "big budget" is roughly $75,000 per episode.

 

[Khan 2.0]

3800 replies and over 157,000 views in 10days. This thread is TFA of BBS

 

[oswriter]

I could have sworn I saw some language vis a vis the crowd funding that basically says "there is a risk." But people are thinking that the donors would still be able to sue for breach?

Yes, there is such language. And yes, you can always sue someone; it doesn't mean it will succeed. Aside from breach of contract, if you can prove fraud--i.e., people relied on knowing misrepresentations made by Axanar--you might be able to recover damages on those grounds.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Without resorting to google, did you write the book where Worf was accused of murder?

If you're talking about "Foreign Foes," yes. It was my first book when I was about 22 years old. Please, forgive it. :-)

Here is what I've done:

http://www.shore-leave.com/guests/dave-galanter.htm

Forgive it...? I loved it - worn out three copies reading it

 

[Zaminhon]

I could have sworn I saw some language vis a vis the crowd funding that basically says "there is a risk." But people are thinking that the donors would still be able to sue for breach?

Yes, it's on every Kickstarter project that I've seen.

 

[DaveGalanter]

Without resorting to google, did you write the book where Worf was accused of murder?

If you're talking about "Foreign Foes," yes. It was my first book when I was about 22 years old. Please, forgive it. :-)

Here is what I've done:

http://www.shore-leave.com/guests/dave-galanter.htm

Forgive it...? I loved it - worn out three copies reading it

You're very kind. I was just sorta leaning as I wrote. The story (thanks to Greg Brodeur) was good, but my style was... well, I was searching for it. So maybe it's stuff most people wouldn't notice, but I look back and go "ugh! Who was I pretending to be there?" :-)

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

If you're talking about "Foreign Foes," yes. It was my first book when I was about 22 years old. Please, forgive it. :-)

Here is what I've done:

http://www.shore-leave.com/guests/dave-galanter.htm

Forgive it...? I loved it - worn out three copies reading it

You're very kind. I was just sorta leaning as I wrote. The story (thanks to Greg Brodeur) was good, but my style was... well, I was searching for it. So maybe it's stuff most people wouldn't notice, but I look back and go "ugh! Who was I pretending to be there?" :-)

There are a few mistakes, sure, but we all have to start somewhere.

Best Mistake: If it was within his power, this conflict would not leave the plant

Best Line: She wasn't his first choice, but everyone else was either under arrest, missing, blind, or insane.

Incidentally, I also liked Battle Lines - especially when there was the nice description of navigation (the use of the Z+ and Z- terms)

 

[GeorgeKirk]

I'm out $25, but it doesn't bother me. The people I feel sorry for are the ones that donated over and over. I used to see posts on the Axanar FB group all the time from people saying "I just donated for the second/third/fourth time and will donate again as soon as I get paid!" These are the same folks who would brag about watching Prelude every day.

These guys really believed that donating to Axanar made them a part of something important and special. I'd chalk this up to their own delusional thinking if not for Alec saying this very thing multiple times on every Axanar podcast. Most people would recognize those statements as just a guy trying to promote his passion project and not take them too seriously, but people who really crave a sense of belonging and haven't been able to find it in their lives don't always have a working BS filter.

 

[DaveGalanter]

There are a few mistakes, sure, but we all have to start somewhere.

Best Mistake: If it was within his power, this conflict would not leave the plant

Best Line: She wasn't his first choice, but everyone else was either under arrest, missing, blind, or insane.

Incidentally, I also liked Battle Lines - especially when there was the nice description of navigation (the use of the Z+ and Z- terms)

Most typos aren't necessarily in the manuscript, at least back then, but we miss them on the final read through. Before it was all electronic, I'd print out the MS and send it off and someone else had to type it all in to be typeset and mistakes would happen. :-)

The under arrest, blind, missing or insane line was our favorite too.

Thanks for liking Battle Lines. Check out my last two, if you've not.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

There are a few mistakes, sure, but we all have to start somewhere.

Best Mistake: If it was within his power, this conflict would not leave the plant

Best Line: She wasn't his first choice, but everyone else was either under arrest, missing, blind, or insane.

Incidentally, I also liked Battle Lines - especially when there was the nice description of navigation (the use of the Z+ and Z- terms)

Most typos aren't necessarily in the manuscript, at least back then, but we miss them on the final read through. Before it was all electronic, I'd print out the MS and send it off and someone else had to type it all in to be typeset and mistakes would happen. :-)

The under arrest, blind, missing or insane line was our favorite too.

Thanks for liking Battle Lines. Check out my last two, if you've not.

I think I might order Crisis of Consciousness - although I agree with Bones that a dry planet is evil...

 

[DaveGalanter]

^ :-D

 

[SeerSGB]

Heck, not even saying it's a bad thing; it's fun to see "big budget" fan stuff made, but I don't like the threat it poses. The more money that goes into it, the more it has to make the IP owner consider going nuclear on all fan films.

Has there been a big-budget fan thing made yet that was worth it? The first Sky Conway film at best had some charm but I couldn't sit through Renegades. The first Starship Exeter was better than either of them. Is there even anything else?

It seems like the best approach is with a fan franchise is to start cheap, be productive, and scale up because amateur and ambitious writing and directing will inevitably lead to fanwank, which money will exacerbate.

I'd actually argue that STC has been big-budget (from a fan film perspective) since day one. New Voyages built their way up to their current size and budget level, but STC started with a high bar and just kept running with it.

However, I do think they're the one exception to date, and they're definitely producing a quality product.

If I had to guess who was going to be next on the lawsuit merry-go-round, it'll be STC. I think Renegades is dead in the water, I don't think they're going to be around much longer--I could be wrong, and it's no offense to anyone on Renegades, I just don't see it. Star Trek Continues is getting a little to big, to popular, and I think they're going to run into the same mower-blade as Axanar.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

Has there been a big-budget fan thing made yet that was worth it? The first Sky Conway film at best had some charm but I couldn't sit through Renegades. The first Starship Exeter was better than either of them. Is there even anything else?

It seems like the best approach is with a fan franchise is to start cheap, be productive, and scale up because amateur and ambitious writing and directing will inevitably lead to fanwank, which money will exacerbate.

I'd actually argue that STC has been big-budget (from a fan film perspective) since day one. New Voyages built their way up to their current size and budget level, but STC started with a high bar and just kept running with it.

However, I do think they're the one exception to date, and they're definitely producing a quality product.

If I had to guess who was going to be next on the lawsuit merry-go-round, it'll be STC. I think Renegades is dead in the water, I don't think they're going to be around much longer--I go be wrong, and it's no offense to anyone on Renegades, I just don't see it. Star Trek Continues is getting a little to big, to popular, and I think they're going to run into the same mower-blade as Axanar.

Around the time, of Star Trek LV, Star Trek Continues changed their logo. September 30th, just looked it up, and basically the reason was, their logo too closely matched the official Star Trek Logo, and they were asked by CBS to change it, and so they did.

Earlier in the year, when The White Iris was pulled, from You Tube, for copyright violation, (This was You Tube's automated system) it was actually CBS who worked with You Tube behind the scenes to get it reinstated.

As good as ST:C looks, it still looks like a 50 year old TV Show. Based on the interactions between ST:C and the fact that it isn't trying to be more than it is, I think they will be fine. They may have challenges with fundraising in the future. I don't know if CBS /paramount will continue to permit crowd funding, but the principles behind this production have sunk alot into it, and haven't gotten anything out. Basically they have played by CBS rules, and I don't see CBS pursuing them..

Unless they are out to shut down ALL fan films.. but I don't think that is the case.