CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[Woulfe]

I loved the repeated "Why all the vitriol against Axanar, when fan films have done this for so long?"

It's a fairly clumsy attempt to put their critics on the defensive. Their problem here is that they've go no leverage to confuse or intimidate anyone with.

Yea, kept seeing that pop up every now & then, it went around in a big circle jerk leading nowhere as folks were like the other ones aren't getting SUED are they ?

Yet it was like they weren't reading that & kept going back on the same excuse "others did it" yeah, right

 

[Maurice]

Ahem.

Pardon my doing this, but...



The idiom is TOE the line, not TOW the line.




Whew. Thanks. That's been driving me nuts throughout this 100+ page thread.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I loved the repeated "Why all the vitriol against Axanar, when fan films have done this for so long?"

It's a fairly clumsy attempt to put their critics on the defensive. Their problem here is that they've go no leverage to confuse or intimidate anyone with.

When tough questions get asked, you sure as hell can expect the victim card to be played. "Why are you all against us? We just want to make a quality STAR TREK movie for you."

 

[Maurice]

I loved the repeated "Why all the vitriol against Axanar, when fan films have done this for so long?"

It's a fairly clumsy attempt to put their critics on the defensive. Their problem here is that they've go no leverage to confuse or intimidate anyone with.

When tough questions get asked, you sure as hell can expect the victim card to be played. "Why are you all against us? We just want to make a quality STAR TREK movie for you."

You forgot the [martyr] and [/martyr] tags.

 

[fireproof78]

I loved the repeated "Why all the vitriol against Axanar, when fan films have done this for so long?"

It's a fairly clumsy attempt to put their critics on the defensive. Their problem here is that they've go no leverage to confuse or intimidate anyone with.

What's funny is the insistence upon keep repeating it as thought that is somehow effective in countering the numerous problems Axanar is facing.

I know i'm really late to the party, but the news doesn't surprise me one bit. The frustration comes from the weird believe that Peters is right and CBS is in the wrong and should be hated for it.

Of course, if it were a smaller company trying to protect their IP against a larger one buying them up it would be a different story.

 

[Woulfe]

Ahem.

Pardon my doing this, but...



The idiom is TOE the line, not TOW the line.




Whew. Thanks. That's been driving me nuts throughout this 100+ page thread.

I must of been thinking tow-trucks for some reason =P
It's been a long day....

 

[Maurice]

I must of been thinking tow-trucks for some reason =P
It's been a long day....

It wasn't just you. You were just one snowflake in the avalanche.

 

[Red Shirt]

I loved the repeated "Why all the vitriol against Axanar, when fan films have done this for so long?"

It's a fairly clumsy attempt to put their critics on the defensive. Their problem here is that they've go no leverage to confuse or intimidate anyone with.

When tough questions get asked, you sure as hell can expect the victim card to be played. "Why are you all against us? We just want to make a quality STAR TREK movie for you."

That's shifting the blame, a fairly obvious manipulation tactic Peters and his followers are repeating ad nauseum.

 

[Maurice]

That's shifting the blame, a fairly obvious manipulation tactic Peters and his followers are repeating ad nauseum.

Misdirection is the illusionist's primary trick.

 

[Ion]

Ahem.
Pardon my doing this, but...

The idiom is TOE the line, not TOW the line.

Whew. Thanks. That's been driving me nuts throughout this 100+ page thread.

Y'know, I actually got that one right.

Of course, if it were a smaller company trying to protect their IP against a larger one buying them up it would be a different story.

Thing is, if I felt that Axanar was truly aboveboard, I'd probably be quietly complaining that there really needs to be a happy medium somewhere in copyright law (eg. using the universe as fair use, while specific stories and characters are protected -- not that I'll ever get my wish on that...).

But they're not.

I'm against Axanar because there's too much evidence stacked against them for mismanagement at best, and outright fraud at worst. It continues to bother me that there's no notice about the lawsuit on their funding page, and I consider that further evidence.

Maybe they're honestly altruistic, maybe not - but they're certainly proving what caused me not to donate in the first place: I don't think they can be trusted to handle donor money properly.

When tough questions get asked, you sure as hell can expect the victim card to be played. "Why are you all against us? We just want to make a quality STAR TREK movie for you."

Years.

YEARS!

Still no movie.

Cry me a river.

 

[Red Shirt]

That's shifting the blame, a fairly obvious manipulation tactic Peters and his followers are repeating ad nauseum.

Misdirection is the illusionist's primary trick.

Well said. I agree.

 

[fireproof78]

Ahem.
Pardon my doing this, but...

The idiom is TOE the line, not TOW the line.

Whew. Thanks. That's been driving me nuts throughout this 100+ page thread.

Y'know, I actually got that one right.

Of course, if it were a smaller company trying to protect their IP against a larger one buying them up it would be a different story.

Thing is, if I felt that Axanar was truly aboveboard, I'd probably be quietly complaining that there really needs to be a happy medium somewhere in copyright law (eg. using the universe as fair use, while specific stories and characters are protected -- not that I'll ever get my wish on that...).

But they're not.

I'm against Axanar because there's too much evidence stacked against them for mismanagement at best, and outright fraud at worst. It continues to bother me that there's no notice about the lawsuit on their funding page, and I consider that further evidence.

Maybe they're honestly altruistic, maybe not - but they're certainly proving what caused me not to donate in the first place: I don't think they can be trusted to handle donor money properly.

Yep.

Nothing that I have seen from their comments or PR has given me the impression that they can be trusted.

The litany of bile towards Abrams and CBS is also rather frustrating, as though CBS must be jealous of Axanar's success and therefore must be punished for outshining CBS.

It all feels so incredibly petty

 

[Maurice]

Nothing that I have seen from their comments or PR has given me the impression that they can be trusted.

The litany of bile towards Abrams and CBS is also rather frustrating, as though CBS must be jealous of Axanar's success and therefore must be punished for outshining CBS.

It all feels so incredibly petty

And delusional. Life in any bubble is like living in a tiny fishbowl where either you're nothing or you're a genius. That the local sycophants are quick to pat you on the back for any accomplishment—no matter how minuscule—tends to give people an inflated sense of importance. When you can shut out dissenting voices it's even worse.

 

[Karzak]

Nothing that I have seen from their comments or PR has given me the impression that they can be trusted.

The litany of bile towards Abrams and CBS is also rather frustrating, as though CBS must be jealous of Axanar's success and therefore must be punished for outshining CBS.

It all feels so incredibly petty

And delusional. Life in any bubble is like living in a tiny fishbowl where either you're nothing or you're a genius. That the local sycophants are quick to pat you on the back for any accomplishment—no matter how minuscule—tends to give people an inflated sense of importance. When you can shut out dissenting voices it's even worse.

I'm reminded of George Lucas and the prequels now...

But in all seriousness, Alec Peters and Robert Meyer Burnett are just big, fat old fish in the tiniest of ponds. Eventually, there's just no one else left who will buy their schtick and they will be confronted with the uncomfortable realization that yes, Virginia, the rest of the whole wide world is out there and no, they don't give two flying fucks about them.

 

[Red Shirt]

I'm against Axanar because there's too much evidence stacked against them for mismanagement at best, and outright fraud at worst. It continues to bother me that there's no notice about the lawsuit on their funding page, and I consider that further evidence.

If you want, go to the Axanar IndieGoGo site filling out a complaint with a link to the lawsuit paperwork. I did and I'm still waiting for a reply.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2660454-Startreklawsuit.html

 

[Noname Given]

A fan film is a film or video inspired by a film, television program, comic book or a similar source, created by fans rather than by the source's copyright holders or creators. Fan filmmakers have traditionally been amateurs, but some of the more notable films have actually been produced by professional filmmakers as film school class projects or as demonstration reels.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_film

Really? Somehow Wikipedia is now Websters? Come on. What's next, citing something from the Urban Dictionary Site?

The jury request is pretty standard in this sort of case. The one reason you do want a jury is that they are essentially laypersons who know how to exercise common sense. Peters may be able to sell his donors on the finer distinctions between what he's producing and CBS IP, but no "person off the street" will be able to distinguish Axanar from licensed Star Trek.

Well in Cali with the studios be the largest employer, how many jurors would vote for a IP thief.

Lol - I don't think you live here in CA as the motion picture studios are hardly the largest employer. Hell, if this suit was filed in Vancouver Canada, maybe (Very little actual production is done in California; and Post Production work is done all over the country these days.) The largest 'employer in CA is actually the State and local government offices.

Given his age, what happens if the good Judge goes to the courtroom in the sky?

Clerk randomly reassigns the case to another judge.

Also, couldn't one side or the other 'paper' this Judge; and get a different Judge assigned? (This happens a lot in Superior court in CA. I don't know if a Federal court has the same rules.)

 

[Franklin]

I'm against Axanar because there's too much evidence stacked against them for mismanagement at best, and outright fraud at worst. It continues to bother me that there's no notice about the lawsuit on their funding page, and I consider that further evidence.

If you want, go to the Axanar IndieGoGo site filling out a complaint with a link to the lawsuit paperwork. I did and I'm still waiting for a reply.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2660454-Startreklawsuit.html

Ah, serendipity. I was looking for that link that someone posted probably fifty pages back. I'm going to note what page this one is on.

CBS/Paramount is asking for either statutory damages of up to $150,000 per individual copyright infringed upon, or actual damages sustained based on proof the defendants profited by violating the copyrights. They also want all reasonable attorneys' fees to be paid by the defendant.

I stopped counting at twenty listed copyright infringements claimed in the paper. That's as much as 3 million dollars in statutory damages. CBS/Paramount's Attorneys' fees may be in six figures if it drags on, and especially if it goes to court. I imagine the CBS/Paramount lawyers are in the $800 to $1000 an hour range. Then, Peters has to pay for his defense. If it goes to trial, even his $400 to $500 an hour lawyer could build up a mid five-figure bill.

They're toast. Burned toast. Burned to a char toast. So unrecognizably badly burned that you wouldn't even give it to the dog toast.

 

[Ion]

If you want, go to the Axanar IndieGoGo site filling out a complaint with a link to the lawsuit paperwork. I did and I'm still waiting for a reply.

Who says I haven't?

Seriously, though, whether I did or not, it's not my responsibility. It's IndieGoGo's responsibility, especially if they knowingly pursued Axanar's business. And, far more importantly, it's Axanar's responsibility.

UPDATE: I just discovered that it's now disclosed on the indiegogo page, most of the way down the page, in tiny little print. The section reads:

There are always risks and challenges when making a film - actors dropping out, locations and/or sets not being available, unforeseen costs, equipment trouble, inclement weather, etc. In addition, "Star Trek" is a licensed property of CBS and so they have the final say in any Star Trek venture. Every member of the Axanar team is also a professional, and has proven his or her skills on other projects and films.

PLEASE NOTE: As of 1/30/15 Axanar Productions has been served with a lawsuit by CBS for copyright infringement. We take this issue seriously and will be posting updated on our website www.axanarproductions.com.

Heh. So much for -- what was it? "Knowing how to navigate the legal issues" or some such tripe? I notice that sentence disappeared.

Now they get about a quarter of a point of increased respect. Put it at the top in big bold letters, as it should be, and they'd get the full point. But at least it's there now.

They're toast. Burned toast. Burned to a char toast. So unrecognizably badly burned that you wouldn't even give it to the dog toast.

That's actually the one point on which I do have some sympathy for them -- specifically, the legal fees they're going to rack up to defend themselves. It's one area where I consider our legal system to be broken. It shouldn't come down to "whoever has the most money, and can thus hire the best lawyers, wins", let alone "if you can drag it out for longer than other party can afford, you win." It should be on the merits.

But I don't see that changing any time soon.

Then again, I suppose Peters can just defend himself. He is a lawyer after all!

 

[Bhodi Li]

Fool for a client, table for one....

 

[Red Shirt]

If you want, go to the Axanar IndieGoGo site filling out a complaint with a link to the lawsuit paperwork. I did and I'm still waiting for a reply.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2660454-Startreklawsuit.html

Who says I haven't?

Seriously, though, whether I did or not, it's not my responsibility. It's IndieGoGo's responsibility, especially if they knowingly pursued Axanar's business. And, far more importantly, it's Axanar's responsibility.

UPDATE: I just discovered that it's now disclosed on the indiegogo page, most of the way down the page, in tiny little print. The section reads:

There are always risks and challenges when making a film - actors dropping out, locations and/or sets not being available, unforeseen costs, equipment trouble, inclement weather, etc. In addition, "Star Trek" is a licensed property of CBS and so they have the final say in any Star Trek venture. Every member of the Axanar team is also a professional, and has proven his or her skills on other projects and films.

PLEASE NOTE: As of 1/30/15 Axanar Productions has been served with a lawsuit by CBS for copyright infringement. We take this issue seriously and will be posting updated on our website www.axanarproductions.com.

Heh. So much for -- what was it? "Knowing how to navigate the legal issues" or some such tripe? I notice that sentence disappeared.

Now they get about a quarter of a point of increased respect. Put it at the top in big bold letters, as it should be, and they'd get the full point. But at least it's there now.

They're toast. Burned toast. Burned to a char toast. So unrecognizably badly burned that you wouldn't even give it to the dog toast.

That's actually the one point on which I do have some sympathy for them -- specifically, the legal fees they're going to rack up to defend themselves. It's one area where I consider our legal system to be broken. It shouldn't come down to "whoever has the most money, and can thus hire the best lawyers, wins", let alone "if you can drag it out for longer than other party can afford, you win." It should be on the merits.

But I don't see that changing any time soon.

Then again, I suppose Peters can just defend himself. He is a lawyer after all!

I think it's a matter of moral conscience speaking up. Had I not filed a complaint no mention of the CBS/Paramount lawsuit would have been disclosed on the Axanar IndieGoGo page.

Which is kinda funny considering how much Peters bangs on about upfront transparency, yet somehow 'forgot' to mention he's been slammed with a multimillion dollar lawsuit while holding his hand out for more money to make a film that in all likelihood, will never be made. As Franklin said, they are toast.

*I wonder if IndieGoGo can be a 'Doe' in the lawsuit. They are currently profiting from a project that's violating IP, which is against their TOS.