CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[HMS Ark Royal]

But the whole "Bitch" line turned me off pretty much right then and there. And I'm not a prude by far, but it just felt wrong. Have the same problem with STVI when Scotty calls Aztibar one.

I agree. Regarding the Scotty line, though - cut scenes included as extras on the discs aren't canon, are they?

It was not a deleted scene on my VHS or DVD editions

 

[SFC3]

snip, wow i'm blind, it was already posted

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

So apparently if you're not with Axanar you're part of the "Fighting Chairborne". Seems a little petty to deride dissenting fans with that sort of language. With the highly respected position Gerrold holds with fandom, I think it speaks volumes about his interests with Peters & Co that he's willing to stick his good reputation on the line for them and create division among fans.

I think he's been found out.

Gerrold is disingenuous. I don't trust a word he says anymore. He's lost authenticity. He certainly has a dog in this fight, as has been pointed out upthread. He's friends with Peters and Burnett. His opinion is biased and based on self-interest.

And he's hardly an authority on this or all matters TREK.

More from David Gerrold on the Axanar situation and lawsuit.

To be honest, it feels disingenuous, especially when he says he has no dog in the fight. He works as a consultant to the Axanar production, giving notes on the script. He "showruns" New Voyages. And Ares Studios had stated their intention to produce one of Gerrold's works.

I say that qualifies as having a dog in the fight.

Thanks for that. I discovered that, somehow, I'm no longer "friends" with Gerrold on Facebook any longer.

I tuned Gerrold out of my feed a long time ago. I came across that through my research of the litigation.

I also find it quite hilarious that the Axanar facebook page is 95% skewed the other way

They're deleting dissenting posts for "trolling", despite Peters' claims of being open and willing to discuss.

That's nothing new. They curate that FB page very precisely to omit any negative or challenging discussion. If you aren't there to suck up and tell them how wonderful they are, you get banned.

Peters is continually trying to point people to the Facebook group so that they can control the message, and squash any opposition.

https://drive.google.com/a/kd-law.co.uk/file/d/0BxWHYHfCkIj2dFA3QlZaRFdLeDQ/view?pref=2&pli=1

Thanks for posting that!

And based on the cover, this seems to be the most recent one and also includes the salaries that others have posted here and elsewhere. See: http://www.axanarproductions.com/revised-axanar-annual-report-released/

 

[JoeZhang]

From the annual report:

The first Axanar Kickstarter was launched with some very specific goals in mind, namely building the infrastructure that would allow us to make Axanar and other Star Trek properties.

Axanar is a professional production in that we do pay people who work on the production. This is not a group of fans getting together and having a great time playing Star Trek (although we certainly enjoy it). That means we do things like a studio would.

As with any business...

Axanar has become a full time venture for some of us. And as such, all full-time employees need to get paid.

Changing from Backerkit (the online checkout system we used following the Prelude Kickstarter) to Ares Digital (our own checkout system, which was some time in the making)

Ares Studios - We funded and created a film studio. While not yet finished, Ares Studio will have everything needed to make movies for years to come.

Infrastructure - We built the infrastructure that will allow us to make great Star Trek and great science fiction films for years to come.

Ares Digital - This technology, which is the entire back-end of fulfillment operations, is critical to any crowd-funded project. Its creation not only gives Ares Studio an advanced product that will make donors’ lives easier, by putting all their perks and information in one, easily-accessible web page, but it allows Ares Studios to create a product it can eventually distribute to other crowdfunded projects as well. This will create a new revenue stream for Ares Studios.

Come on... this document alone is dynamite.

 

[KennyB]

How more official can it get than two whole articles about the case? Here and here.

M--maybe I'm missing something here. Does Rod run 1701News?
I thought the link I was talking about was referencing Rod Roddenberry "taking a stance".

 

[oswriter]

Good lord. CBS is going sink this guy.

My favorite line item in the Axanar report so far: $198.41 for "dinner with Tony Todd." Good Lord, what did Tony eat???

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

You know Peters is screwed when even the US government puts blocks in front of him

Government Red Tape - As of the writing of this document in September 2015,

we have been working for six months trying to get the city and county to approve

our plans for building out our offices and wardrobe/makeup rooms. Tenant

improvements should have been easy, but the city and county want you to jump

through innumerable hoops, and this meant hiring an architect, which ran

$11,000 (and even that was a third of our first quote!). Government fees have

been over $3,000 so far.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Good lord. CBS is going sink this guy.

My favorite line item in the Axanar report so far: $198.41 for "dinner with Tony Todd." Good Lord, what did Tony eat???

What a stupid question - gagh of course

Loved this gem from the report also

Changing from Backerkit (the online checkout system we used following

the Prelude Kickstarter) to Ares Digital (our own checkout system, which

was some time in the making) meant the Axanar Kickstarter donors

weren’t sent through checkout for over a year, further eroding some

donors’ confidence.

You don't say...

(note to the mods: I seem to have trouble when quoting as it brings up a piece from several pages previous... Can somebody tell me if multiquote is enabled for me?)

 

[Smoked Salmon]

Good lord. CBS is going sink this guy.

My favorite line item in the Axanar report so far: $198.41 for "dinner with Tony Todd." Good Lord, what did Tony eat???

Did he eat on his own?

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Good lord. CBS is going sink this guy.

My favorite line item in the Axanar report so far: $198.41 for "dinner with Tony Todd." Good Lord, what did Tony eat???

Well, to be fair, if you have a large group of four to six, a restaurant bill can quickly climb, especially if you include cocktails.

You know Peters is screwed when even the US government puts blocks in front of him

Government Red Tape - As of the writing of this document in September 2015,

we have been working for six months trying to get the city and county to approve

our plans for building out our offices and wardrobe/makeup rooms. Tenant

improvements should have been easy, but the city and county want you to jump

through innumerable hoops, and this meant hiring an architect, which ran

$11,000 (and even that was a third of our first quote!). Government fees have

been over $3,000 so far.

That seems to me like building the infrastructure for future business.

As does all of this:

From the annual report:

The first Axanar Kickstarter was launched with some very specific goals in mind, namely building the infrastructure that would allow us to make Axanar and other Star Trek properties.

Infrastructure - We built the infrastructure that will allow us to make great Star Trek and great science fiction films for years to come.

Ares Digital - This technology, which is the entire back-end of fulfillment operations, is critical to any crowd-funded project. Its creation not only gives Ares Studio an advanced product that will make donors’ lives easier, by putting all their perks and information in one, easily-accessible web page, but it allows Ares Studios to create a product it can eventually distribute to other crowdfunded projects as well. This will create a new revenue stream for Ares Studios.

And creating a software that one can use as a revenue stream ... well that sounds like trying to profit.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

Section VII - 2016 Plans

These are all commercial ventures, no?

 

[Karzak]

From the annual report:

The first Axanar Kickstarter was launched with some very specific goals in mind, namely building the infrastructure that would allow us to make Axanar and other Star Trek properties.

Axanar is a professional production in that we do pay people who work on the production. This is not a group of fans getting together and having a great time playing Star Trek (although we certainly enjoy it). That means we do things like a studio would.

Infrastructure - We built the infrastructure that will allow us to make great Star Trek and great science fiction films for years to come.

Ares Digital - This technology, which is the entire back-end of fulfillment operations, is critical to any crowd-funded project. Its creation not only gives Ares Studio an advanced product that will make donors’ lives easier, by putting all their perks and information in one, easily-accessible web page, but it allows Ares Studios to create a product it can eventually distribute to other crowdfunded projects as well. This will create a new revenue stream for Ares Studios.

Come on... this document alone is dynamite.

Agreed. Peters has literally no leg to stand on.

 

[mos6507]

Good lord. CBS is going sink this guy.

Just Alec, though? What about the 20 John Does?

 

[oswriter]

Good lord. CBS is going sink this guy.

Just Alec, though? What about the 20 John Does?

My guess is the Does are not there for money damages. They're anyone who holds work that infringes on the copyrights that the studios will want destroyed.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

 

[mos6507]

Good lord. CBS is going sink this guy.

Just Alec, though? What about the 20 John Does?

My guess is the Does are not there for money damages. They're anyone who holds work that infringes on the copyrights that the studios will want destroyed.

Anyone want to speculate on how much liability Tobias might have? I thought he doesn't charge James for work on NV/PII, but he hardly donated his time to Axanar... Considering how critical the FX were to selling Axanar, he's a key contributor.

 

[oswriter]

Just Alec, though? What about the 20 John Does?

My guess is the Does are not there for money damages. They're anyone who holds work that infringes on the copyrights that the studios will want destroyed.

Anyone want to speculate on how much liability Tobias might have? I thought he doesn't charge James for work on NV/PII, but he hardly donated his time to Axanar... Considering how critical the FX were to selling Axanar, he's a key contributor.

Richter lives in Germany, correct? If so, he's probably safe as it it's going to be hard for the court to assert personal jurisdiction over him.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

My guess is the Does are not there for money damages. They're anyone who holds work that infringes on the copyrights that the studios will want destroyed.

Anyone want to speculate on how much liability Tobias might have? I thought he doesn't charge James for work on NV/PII, but he hardly donated his time to Axanar... Considering how critical the FX were to selling Axanar, he's a key contributor.

Richter lives in Germany, correct? If so, he's probably safe as it it's going to be hard for the court to assert personal jurisdiction over him.

That all depends one what structure exists between the US and Germany for the enforcement of foreign judgments.

 

[thumbtack]

So let me talk about the lawsuit against Axanar, by CBS and Paramount.
I will qualify my remarks by saying I have no dog in this particular fight, I am only a knowledgeable observer.

I've known several people in the Paramount legal department, most of whom were honorable. I also have known several fan film productions, most of whom were not only honorable but enthusiastic about Star Trek in a way that should embarrass some of the people who were paid to produce actual episodes of the series.

That said, I think the lawsuit was filed without sufficient consideration of the situation.
Fans have been making Star Trek fan films -- and crowdfunding them -- for fifteen years. There's Star Trek New Voyages, Star Trek Farragut, Star Trek Renegads, Star Trek Continues, and probably a few others I'm unaware of. These are all recreations of the original series, with fan actors playing Kirk, Spock, McCoy et al. These are all filmed on recreations of the original series bridge and corridors and other sets. They are filmed with replicas of props, costumes, makeup, and set design. They are such accurate recreations of the original series that bootleggers overseas have sold copies of the episodes as if they are the real thing.

All of the fan film productions operate under the same general guideline -- have fun, but you're not allowed to make a profit. So all of the fan film productions are freely available on YouTube.

Part of the reason so many professionals, like myself, have participated in fan productions is the desire to make and see more Star Trek. Those who were too young (or not born yet) to participate in the original series, have come to the fan productions as an opportunity to be a part of the magic.

All of this has to be seen as a measure of the kind of enthusiasm that Star Trek fans have and that should be available to any new Star Trek movie or TV series.
Now, Axanar -- Axanar is not a recreation of the original series. It's about a battle referred to in passing, in only one episode of the original series. It's about a minor character in one episode and how he became a Starfleet legend. It does not take place on the Enterprise. It does not use any of the characters of the original series. Its closest relationship to the original series is that it takes place in the same universe, many years before Kirk and Spock.

Now ... I am not a lawyer and I have not been approached by either side to function as either a consultant or an expert witness (although, if this ever goes to trial, I expect I will be called in) -- but, if Axanar represents an infringement on the copyrights of Paramount and CBS, then so does Star Trek New Voyages, Star Trek Farragut, Star Trek Renegades, and Star Trek Continues. And whoever else.

Based on the number of views that all these separate iterations have earned worldwide -- possibly more than a hundred million -- Paramount and CBS could file for damages of a billion dollars.

And the resulting fannish firestorm would go on for years.

As I have heard the story, the first New Voyages episode was a private adventure, never intended for internet distribution. But one of the participants did upload it to YouTube -- and shortly thereafter, James Cawley received a call from Paramount legal, the gist of which was: "Have fun, but don't sell tickets, don't sell copies, don't make a profit."
Now, that was smart, it recognized fannish enthusiasm -- but at the same time, it planted the seeds for today's situation, because it created a de facto license for all Star Trek fan films.

Which brings us to the lawsuit against Axanar. The lawyers have to prove two things:

1) That this fan film represents a significant usage of Paramount/CBS's property.
and

2) Axanar is a profit-making enterprise. (Ohell, it isn't even THE Enterprise.)
Both will be hard to prove, especially the latter, because of all the fan films, Axanar has been the most transparent with its fund-raising and its accounting.

There is a third point that would likely be made in such a court case:

If Axanar represents a threat to the copyright, why haven't Paramount and CBS taken steps to shut down New Voyages, Farragut, Renegades, and Continues? What makes Axanar different? What makes Axanar a threat?

Paramount/CBS's response would likely be that Axanar represents a professional level of production. Well, yes -- but so does New Voyages. (I can't speak for any of the others on that, although I do know that many professionals have been involved with Continues and Renegades.)

There is a way out of this mess -- and if people on all sides of this are smart -- it could be resolved in a matter of days.

Lucasfilm is the model. They created an award for fan films and even arranged licensing and distribution.

Paramount/CBS should do the same. There are people at CBS who would love to put out a DVD or Blu-ray distribution of Star Trek fan films, but have so far been unable to get approval for the idea. But it's a good idea. An official distribution of fan films would generate money for both the copyright owners and for the filmmakers to use in future efforts. The fan-films would be officially licensed as fan productions.

To make this work, the studio would have to hire a qualified liaison to work with various fan films to make sure that they follow appropriate guidelines and in return would receive the blessings of legal distribution and protection.

By keeping the fan films in a specific licensed venue, a kind of voluntary garden, Paramount and CBS would benefit from the good publicity of being seen to promote and foster great fan efforts -- the fans would benefit from having a specific legal venue for their individual productions.

Yes, there would be a lot of paperwork to be settled -- and I expect the cooperation of various Guilds might be necessary as well -- but the goal here is to produce a win-win situation for everyone, but especially for the fans.

Because if it weren't for the fans and their loyalty for the past 49 years, there wouldn't have been a franchise in the first place.

With this in mind, I am announcing that production of my independent Star Wolf film has begun. Please donate generously to my Kickstarter, which will go up tomorrow.

Gerrold himself, of course, gets nothing because I am fan and he would have no career without the fans.

 

[lurok]

Thanks to whoever linked the 2015 report

Peters may have many many faults, the most egregious of which is no frakking idea how to clearly lay out budgetary expenditure or a summary report. Grade school level and all over the place. If I was an investor, I would have asked him if that was a draft, and seriously, when are we getting the final version, Alec?