CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[Smoked Salmon]

Well, technically there would still be a copyright breach, but realistically it would make the litigation no longer worth pursuing financially as the overall objective of it, to stop the production, would have been achieved. While it is useful to use such proceedings to set precedents, if the defendant entirely or mostly remedies the claim then I suspect the court would take a dim view of any party still trying to push it to trial. Certainly would where I'm from anyhow.

I dunno. As has been pointed out numerous times, damages aren't always the issue with Copyright cases, so even if Axanar returned every unspent penny, they STILL exploited CBS and Paramount's Copyrighted property. And let's got forget they made and released Prelude, using money raised off said I.P.

Renegades, Continues, New Voyages and all the others are also exploiting the IP. Remember that. They remain untouched so far. I think this is all about the scale and nature of the production - and at the end of the day, trial or not, if they force Peters to shut down then that in itself is a huge statement of intent. Plus they can demand that Prelude be taken down.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

if Axanar returned every unspent penny, they STILL exploited CBS and Paramount's Copyrighted property.

Wonder if they would go on a spending spree..........so when it's done they can say..........sorry it's all gone. You know on defense----Not MY fault....blame CBS.

If they did that they risk having their remaining assets seized and bankruptcy.

Mind you, one of Peters companies has been through insolvency before so may he just doesn't care.

 

[oswriter]

Hypothetical Question...

If Peters should at this point pull the plug on Axanar, dismantle the sets, pull the plug on the studio, shut down his company, refund the backers as far as is possible to the point that Axanar doesn't exist anymore, and cannot be easily restarted, would ParaCBS still have a lawsuit? Would the trailer and Prelude be enough for them to continue, or would they be back at square one when it comes to setting a precedent for fan films?

Well, technically there would still be a copyright breach, but realistically it would make the litigation no longer worth pursuing financially as the overall objective of it, to stop the production, would have been achieved. While it is useful to use such proceedings to set precedents, if the defendant entirely or mostly remedies the claim then I suspect the court would take a dim view of any party still trying to push it to trial. Certainly would where I'm from anyhow.

But the studios probably would not outright dismiss the case either. They would still be prudent to seek an injunction so that Peters couldn't simply create another entity or sell his script or the production to someone else. The studios will also want Peters to certify under oath that he's actually dismantled his operation (similar to what happened in the Carol Publishing case).

 

[SeerSGB]

Ironically, their own website calls themselves out

Is Axanar licensed by CBS/Paramount?

No, Axanar is an independent project that uses the intellectual property of CBS under the provision that Axanar is totally non-commercial. That means we can never charge for anything featuring their marks or intellectual property and we will never sell the movie, DVD/Blu-ray copies, T-shirts, or anything which uses CBS owned marks or intellectual property.

So why are you making Axanar?

Also, looking at Axanar's website and was blown away by the outstanding qualifications that Alec has

The leader and visionary of the Axanar project, Alec is the epitome of someone who discovers their calling and succeeds in pursuing it. An attorney by training, Alec coached an NCAA Championship volleyball team at USC and with the US National team, then struck off and started five companies earning him an Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year Award in 2003.

uses the intellectual property of CBS under the provision that Axanar is totally non-commercial

Hold up there. That could be read as them have consent from CBS if they're non-profit. CBS never gave them consent, but they're saying they're doing under conditions from CBS.

 

[Danlav05]

Well, technically there would still be a copyright breach, but realistically it would make the litigation no longer worth pursuing financially as the overall objective of it, to stop the production, would have been achieved. While it is useful to use such proceedings to set precedents, if the defendant entirely or mostly remedies the claim then I suspect the court would take a dim view of any party still trying to push it to trial. Certainly would where I'm from anyhow.

I dunno. As has been pointed out numerous times, damages aren't always the issue with Copyright cases, so even if Axanar returned every unspent penny, they STILL exploited CBS and Paramount's Copyrighted property. And let's got forget they made and released Prelude, using money raised off said I.P.

Renegades, Continues, New Voyages and all the others are also exploiting the IP. Remember that. They remain untouched so far. I think this is all about the scale and nature of the production - and at the end of the day, trial or not, if they force Peters to shut down then that in itself is a huge statement of intent. Plus they can demand that Prelude be taken down.

I don't see anything to say these productions aren't at risk

 

[SeerSGB]

if Axanar returned every unspent penny, they STILL exploited CBS and Paramount's Copyrighted property.

Wonder if they would go on a spending spree..........so when it's done they can say..........sorry it's all gone. You know on defense----Not MY fault....blame CBS.

If they did that they risk having their remaining assets seized and bankruptcy.

Mind you, one of Peters companies has been through insolvency before so may he just doesn't care.

I don't know what the look-back is on a case like this. But from my experience in having to sue someone in a car accident that pulled this stunt to claim he couldn't pay a judgement cause he was too poor the courts will nail you to the all.

 

[urbandefault]

plus from his actions it seems he is ready to ride this baby all the way into the ground. I really hope that over the weekend he got some real professionals that haven't drank the Kool-Aid to give him some good advice that he WILL ACTUALLY follow. I doubt it but I hate to see anyone go down as hard as he might.

 

[TrekGuide.com]

Hypothetical Question...

If Peters should at this point pull the plug on Axanar, dismantle the sets, pull the plug on the studio, shut down his company, refund the backers as far as is possible to the point that Axanar doesn't exist anymore, and cannot be easily restarted, would ParaCBS still have a lawsuit?

If I drive through a playground and run over your kid, but then I sell my car, can you still sue me? What if I swear that I did not profit in any way from running over your kid? I was just a fan of playgrounds and wanted to drive through that one. To sue me would be like declaring war on everyone who has ever enjoyed a playground.

 

[Maurice]

Well, technically there would still be a copyright breach, but realistically it would make the litigation no longer worth pursuing financially as the overall objective of it, to stop the production, would have been achieved. While it is useful to use such proceedings to set precedents, if the defendant entirely or mostly remedies the claim then I suspect the court would take a dim view of any party still trying to push it to trial. Certainly would where I'm from anyhow.

I dunno. As has been pointed out numerous times, damages aren't always the issue with Copyright cases, so even if Axanar returned every unspent penny, they STILL exploited CBS and Paramount's Copyrighted property. And let's got forget they made and released Prelude, using money raised off said I.P.

Renegades, Continues, New Voyages and all the others are also exploiting the IP. Remember that. They remain untouched so far. I think this is all about the scale and nature of the production - and at the end of the day, trial or not, if they force Peters to shut down then that in itself is a huge statement of intent. Plus they can demand that Prelude be taken down.

Of course I "remember that". Upthread I quoted the part of the complaint that I think is the key issue. My point is that Axanar has completed one short film using some of the money it raised and so there's no way to undo that even if they folded the company and returned every unspent penny.

 

[SeerSGB]

The article also indicated Peters was seeking "incentives" from a local economic development corporation.

Hmmmm...

Which of course means tax credits. And that raises another question: Is a "fan film" making a "profit" when it receives any sort of tax benefit from a locality?

Which goes back to what they may have been telling people. As in were they sell themselves an official/licensed production.

I love the fact that he bangs on about being a lawyer, when it reality he's just someone who passed his exams and thereafter didn't do a day in practice (which would explain why he's so clueless when it comes to this case).

Meanwhile, here's the guy CBS and Paramount are bringing in to run their case.

Shit...well they're dead.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

Hypothetical Question...

If Peters should at this point pull the plug on Axanar, dismantle the sets, pull the plug on the studio, shut down his company, refund the backers as far as is possible to the point that Axanar doesn't exist anymore, and cannot be easily restarted, would ParaCBS still have a lawsuit? Would the trailer and Prelude be enough for them to continue, or would they be back at square one when it comes to setting a precedent for fan films?

Well, technically there would still be a copyright breach, but realistically it would make the litigation no longer worth pursuing financially as the overall objective of it, to stop the production, would have been achieved. While it is useful to use such proceedings to set precedents, if the defendant entirely or mostly remedies the claim then I suspect the court would take a dim view of any party still trying to push it to trial. Certainly would where I'm from anyhow.

But the studios probably would not outright dismiss the case either. They would still be prudent to seek an injunction so that Peters couldn't simply create another entity or sell his script or the production to someone else. The studios will also want Peters to certify under oath that he's actually dismantled his operation (similar to what happened in the Carol Publishing case).

The injunction is going to happen come what may I suspect. If Peters then shuts down (and complies with the injunction) then I would have thought the order you refer to could be sought without the need for a full trial and instead by way of an interim application - assuming Peters was agreeable to such an undertaking, which he presumably would be if he shut everything down. The interim injunction would already have stopped him carrying out any further infringement from the date it was granted.

I suppose if he shut everything down but failed to agree to give an undertaking in respect future infringement then the studio would be forced to continue the proceedings until such an order was achieved at the very least. I don't think this is a realistic scenario though if Peters goes to the trouble of shutting the whole thing down while bound by an injunction. Well, not unless he's a bloody fool, ignores legal advice and is in denial as to why he'd being forced to shut down.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

I dunno. As has been pointed out numerous times, damages aren't always the issue with Copyright cases, so even if Axanar returned every unspent penny, they STILL exploited CBS and Paramount's Copyrighted property. And let's got forget they made and released Prelude, using money raised off said I.P.

Renegades, Continues, New Voyages and all the others are also exploiting the IP. Remember that. They remain untouched so far. I think this is all about the scale and nature of the production - and at the end of the day, trial or not, if they force Peters to shut down then that in itself is a huge statement of intent. Plus they can demand that Prelude be taken down.

Of course I "remember that". Upthread I quoted the part of the complaint that I think is the key issue. My point is that Axanar has completed one short film using some of the money it raised and so there's no way to undo that even if they folded the company and returned every unspent penny.

Of course they can undo it. They can withdraw it from public circulation. That would cease the ongoing infringement.

As to any claims in respect of profit making, well that depends on whether or not Prelude has the same issue in that respect as the substantive project. It's not going to be substantial though.

 

[SeerSGB]

Renegades, Continues, New Voyages and all the others are also exploiting the IP. Remember that. They remain untouched so far. I think this is all about the scale and nature of the production - and at the end of the day, trial or not, if they force Peters to shut down then that in itself is a huge statement of intent. Plus they can demand that Prelude be taken down.

Of course I "remember that". Upthread I quoted the part of the complaint that I think is the key issue. My point is that Axanar has completed one short film using some of the money it raised and so there's no way to undo that even if they folded the company and returned every unspent penny.

Of course they can undo it. They can withdraw it from public circulation. That would cease the ongoing infringement.

As to any claims in respect of profit making, well that depends on whether or not Prelude has the same issue in that respect as the substantive project.

If they were smart...hey stop laughing, I'm being serious...they'd shut down everything, pull everything, and just put up a boiler plate "Do To Current Questions Regarding..". Shunt all the money into a holding account, and not touch a dime of it and say "here ya' go" when the first meeting happens. Then pray Zavin doesn't demand their souls and first born in the settlement.

 

[Jon1701]

Not posted for a while.

I'll echo what was posted way, way back in the thread - its heartwarming to find that a good 95% of the posters in this thread are in total agreement and that CBS had every right to protect their IP. I was expecting fireworks but nothing of the sort.

I also find it quite hilarious that the Axanar facebook page is 95% skewed the other way

Peters and Burnett be crazee...

 

[Michael]

The level of stupid in this article is staggering.

Wow, just wow. It's kind of astonishing to see how some people are misunderstanding what's happening here.

"I don’t know if the side effects of the suit have been fully considered by CBS. Regardless of the legality of the situation, millions of fans have seen "Prelude to Axanar" and it has only whetted their appetites for a new Star Trek film that actually resonates what these fans want to see. Attacking "Axanar" can only serve to inflame those fans against CBS and potentially sour them against projects like the release of a planned pay-per-view Star Trek next year."

What I find most disturbing is that he seems to think that with statements like these he is speaking for all fans. No, Axanar has not “whetted my appetite” and it most certainly isn't what I want to see in Star Trek.

Furthermore, this is an organization that really hasn’t done very much with their own television franchise since "Star Trek: Enterprise" went off the air 10 years ago. They have effectively manufactured this vacuum themselves and as soon as one of the many fan-based film projects begins to start to look financially profitable, they make a “vigorous attempt to protect (their) intellectual property”?

He makes it sound like it's not in their right to protect their property. As if they are somehow in the wrong going after people using their IP. I can't get behind that thinking!

If CBS has a game plan behind their heavy-handed, intimidating tactics, could it be that it involves taking the production for their own and that this is simply the opening shot in an attempt to wrest creative control of the project? There’s a lot of this type of speculation flying around the Internet right now, and it seems to be a viable possibility.

What is it with all these Axanar supporters who seem to think CBS wants to use the “idea” for themselves? Do they really think CBS can't come up with something of their own? I'd be really surprised if the new show has any resemblance to Axanar when it's coming out next year.

CBS can’t afford the negative press. They’ve got too much against them as it is: perceived mishandling of their own property, bullying aspect of a “David vs. Goliath” court case and an entire legion of vocal fans who would clearly welcome a more positive approach to handling the issue instead of a bitter and divisive legal spat.

Again, he most certainly does not speak for this fan! Oh, the audacity!

 

[oswriter]

Well, technically there would still be a copyright breach, but realistically it would make the litigation no longer worth pursuing financially as the overall objective of it, to stop the production, would have been achieved. While it is useful to use such proceedings to set precedents, if the defendant entirely or mostly remedies the claim then I suspect the court would take a dim view of any party still trying to push it to trial. Certainly would where I'm from anyhow.

But the studios probably would not outright dismiss the case either. They would still be prudent to seek an injunction so that Peters couldn't simply create another entity or sell his script or the production to someone else. The studios will also want Peters to certify under oath that he's actually dismantled his operation (similar to what happened in the Carol Publishing case).

The injunction is going to happen come what may I suspect. If Peters then shuts down (and complies with the injunction) then I would have thought the order you refer to could be sought without the need for a full trial and instead by way of an interim application - assuming Peters was agreeable to such an undertaking, which he presumably would be if he shut everything down. The interim injunction would already have stopped him carrying out any further infringement from the date it was granted.

I suppose if he shut everything down but failed to agree to give an undertaking in respect future infringement then the studio would be forced to continue the proceedings until such an order was achieved at the very least. I don't think this is a realistic scenario though if Peters goes to the trouble of shutting the whole thing down while bound by an injunction. Well, not unless he's a bloody fool, ignores legal advice and is in denial as to why he'd being forced to shut down.

Oh, I agree this isn't getting as far as trial should there be an injunction. I was thinking this would be like Carol Publishing, where the parties would negotiate a stipulated judgment and submit it to the judge.

Now, the other thing is that should the judge grant an injunction, Peters could appeal that up to the Ninth Circuit. That will drag things out for awhile, and it would give him a chance to muster up some public support from outside interest groups.

 

[Jon1701]

I'm sure this has been written up/down thread but a 20 min talking head full of SFX and a two minute shot of vulcans walking down the road was hardly Citizen Kane.

It certainly looked good but how did anyone who donated know what they were going to get. Shouldn't these guys have walked a few more steps before they started sprinting?

Seems quite obvious a lot of the Axanar people have been inhaling each others Co2 for too long and lost perspective on the thing.

Hubris indeed.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

I also find it quite hilarious that the Axanar facebook page is 95% skewed the other way

They're deleting dissenting posts for "trolling", despite Peters' claims of being open and willing to discuss.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

More from David Gerrold on the Axanar situation and lawsuit.

To be honest, it feels disingenuous, especially when he says he has no dog in the fight. He works as a consultant to the Axanar production, giving notes on the script. He "showruns" New Voyages. And Ares Studios had stated their intention to produce one of Gerrold's works.

I say that qualifies as having a dog in the fight.

Thanks for that. I discovered that, somehow, I'm no longer "friends" with Gerrold on Facebook any longer.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

But the studios probably would not outright dismiss the case either. They would still be prudent to seek an injunction so that Peters couldn't simply create another entity or sell his script or the production to someone else. The studios will also want Peters to certify under oath that he's actually dismantled his operation (similar to what happened in the Carol Publishing case).

The injunction is going to happen come what may I suspect. If Peters then shuts down (and complies with the injunction) then I would have thought the order you refer to could be sought without the need for a full trial and instead by way of an interim application - assuming Peters was agreeable to such an undertaking, which he presumably would be if he shut everything down. The interim injunction would already have stopped him carrying out any further infringement from the date it was granted.

I suppose if he shut everything down but failed to agree to give an undertaking in respect future infringement then the studio would be forced to continue the proceedings until such an order was achieved at the very least. I don't think this is a realistic scenario though if Peters goes to the trouble of shutting the whole thing down while bound by an injunction. Well, not unless he's a bloody fool, ignores legal advice and is in denial as to why he'd being forced to shut down.

Oh, I agree this isn't getting as far as trial should there be an injunction. I was thinking this would be like Carol Publishing, where the parties would negotiate a stipulated judgment and submit it to the judge.

Now, the other thing is that should the judge grant an injunction, Peters could appeal that up to the Ninth Circuit. That will drag things out for awhile, and it would give him a chance to muster up some public support from outside interest groups.

The injunction would still be in effect while he appeals. I wonder if he'll seek money for representation via the crowd funding.