CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[dub]

I think there's a positive solution so long as folks are willing to consider it.

What would that be?

 

[Amaris]

I've read through this whole thread. How Axanar has responded to all this is absurd. But maybe there's a deeper reason than we've considered.

My theory: Peters knows he's screwed. He can't beat CBS at their own game. If he can't win, he goes down swinging and makes himself a martyr for the fans, thus satiating his alleged big ego.

Thoughts?

My thought is that amateur psychoanalysis of someone from whom you want cooperation is never constructive.

He's damaging a thing I care about. I'll pile on as I see fit. I don't owe him anything.

If he has a problem he can come in here and defend himself like he has so aptly done these past two days. I'm sure it will be cogent and legally thought-out.

How will that help all the other productions?

What is your angle here? Surely you don't think that this thread will sway either CBS, or Alec Peters, to change their strategy? For CBS, they don't need to do anything but apply the law as it is, because they're in the right. For Alec Peters, this has become a crusade against the unholy, and since he is openly defying CBS, inviting them to push further, then we are beyond talking nice. That ship has sailed.

My disagreement and condemnation of his actions changes nothing. So what is your angle, and why now after all of these pages where you said nothing to that effect before?

 

[KennyB]

If someone steals my car to rob a bank, I'm not going to be nice about it and let them continue to steal my car to rob other banks because they spent all the money from the first robbery on flapjacks and hookers.

You Sir should TRY flapjacks and hookers.....they will make you do stupid things. They are amazing.

 

[JoeZhang]

How will that help all the other productions?

What problem do other productions have? Unless and until CBS sues then they have no problem.

 

[Squiggy]

He's damaging a thing I care about. I'll pile on as I see fit. I don't owe him anything.

If he has a problem he can come in here and defend himself like he has so aptly done these past two days. I'm sure it will be cogent and legally thought-out.

How will that help all the other productions?

None of us are in a position to help anything. This is all between Peters, CBS, and the United States District Court for the Central District of California.

This is just me...expressing myself.

 

[CRM-114]

My theory: Peters knows he's screwed. He can't beat CBS at their own game. If he can't win, he goes down swinging and makes himself a martyr for the fans, thus satiating his alleged big ego.

Thoughts?

If you've ever met Peters in a comments section under any of his user names you'll know he's like this all the time to everyone. Not saying it makes him guilty, but this isn't a strategy. It's him.

I've heard that in several places, and I'll readily admit that most of us here wouldn't rally around to defend Peters or his actions. At the same time, I have to think some segment of fandom out there does believe Peters is the victim here; certainly on the Axanar Facebook group. He wouldn't even have to gain a tremendous amount of support, just a small amount could be considered a "success".

The danger is that Peters and his supporters are so vocal, we're running the risk of having them be perceived as the "voice of fandom". Peters and his Facebook followers do not speak for me or anyone but themselves. I wouldn't want them speaking for me unless I wanted to be characterized as a crazy person.

 

[poundpuppy29]

Personally I've never understood the "_____ must be afraid of _____ to shut us down!" mentality. Fill in the blanks. Why would a huge network and studio be afraid of a small project with a budget that equals the salary of 2 Big Bang Theory cast members per episode? It's not about CBS being afraid. It's about their stupid Team Axanar or whatever they call themselves screwing up royally and mismanaging funds and not keeping their mouths shut.

very true they are not afraid it's about legal and line crossing

 

[JWPlatt]

No, their IP being used to build capital towards a for-profit studio gives them permission.

Totally agree, if true. Someone above asked what I would do. That's immaterial to me, because what I would do is what I'm doing - ask for more positive solutions. But I will say, if true, I would give possession of that production company, built with ill-gotten gains, by court order to CBS to liquidate or do as they see fit.

 

[Amaris]

No, their IP being used to build capital towards a for-profit studio gives them permission.

Totally agree, if true. Someone above asked what I would do. That's immaterial to me, because what I would do is what I'm doing - ask for more positive solutions. But I will say, if true, I would give possession of that production company, built with ill-gotten gains, by court order to CBS to liquidate or do as they see fit.

Which might still happen. That said, the power of positivity isn't going to shift this outcome in either direction.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

My theory: Peters knows he's screwed. He can't beat CBS at their own game. If he can't win, he goes down swinging and makes himself a martyr for the fans, thus satiating his alleged big ego.

Thoughts?

If you've ever met Peters in a comments section under any of his user names you'll know he's like this all the time to everyone. Not saying it makes him guilty, but this isn't a strategy. It's him.

I've heard that in several places, and I'll readily admit that most of us here wouldn't rally around to defend Peters or his actions. At the same time, I have to think some segment of fandom out there does believe Peters is the victim here; certainly on the Axanar Facebook group. He wouldn't even have to gain a tremendous amount of support, just a small amount could be considered a "success".

The danger is that Peters and his supporters are so vocal, we're running the risk of having them be perceived as the "voice of fandom". Peters and his Facebook followers do not speak for me or anyone but themselves. I wouldn't want them speaking for me unless I wanted to be characterized as a crazy person.

That has happened to a certain extent. Trek fandom is filled with the so-called "voice of fandom." Peters and Burnett, along with a few others, have become go-tos for quotes about STAR TREK. And the pop culture media generalizes and lumps all fans together because it makes for better clicks and views.

I've seen both Peters and Burnett at two separate conventions. I didn't care for either. However, when Peters is amongst his acolytes, he is very charming. It's easy to see how he's snake charmed an entire following. He's convinced them him and his project are Trek's salvation.

Burnett is a blowhard who pontificates like he is a bastion of STAR TREK.

 

[JD]

I've really just following this thread, so I haven't seen what Peters has been doing. Where's the best place to see what he's done to turn people against him so quickly?
I saw someone mention Vic Mignonga, what did he do?

 

[SFC3]

I've really just following this thread, so I haven't seen what Peters has been doing. Where's the best place to see what he's done to turn people against him so quickly?
I saw someone mention Vic Mignonga, what did he do?

I though Vic and James Cawley had plenty of problems while working on Kitumba. In fact, I do believe Vic's copy of Kitumba leaked early to Vimeo. I don't know the whole story, however.

 

[JWPlatt]

I've read through this whole thread. How Axanar has responded to all this is absurd. But maybe there's a deeper reason than we've considered.

My theory: Peters knows he's screwed. He can't beat CBS at their own game. If he can't win, he goes down swinging and makes himself a martyr for the fans, thus satiating his alleged big ego.

Thoughts?

My thought is that amateur psychoanalysis of someone from whom you want cooperation is never constructive.

He's damaging a thing I care about. I'll pile on as I see fit. I don't owe him anything.

If he has a problem he can come in here and defend himself like he has so aptly done these past two days. I'm sure it will be cogent and legally thought-out.

How will that help all the other productions?

What is your angle here? Surely you don't think that this thread will sway either CBS, or Alec Peters, to change their strategy? For CBS, they don't need to do anything but apply the law as it is, because they're in the right. For Alec Peters, this has become a crusade against the unholy, and since he is openly defying CBS, inviting them to push further, then we are beyond talking nice. That ship has sailed.

My disagreement and condemnation of his actions changes nothing. So what is your angle, and why now after all of these pages where you said nothing to that effect before?

I don't understand the angle question. Maybe this helps: I am an owner and admin on a site with an open source project. The open source community goes through quite the same sort of politics. So on my site, the policy is "If you have a complaint, please put it in the form of a constructive request instead so that it is clear what you want, and that what you want is not simply to complain, but to contribute."

I guess that informs my methods on anything, especially when what's going on here, with what are similar to "open source" fan productions, reminds me so strongly of an open source project.

Nothing happens when there are complaints. Solutions matter, and volunteers to implement them. And volunteers don't want to work in a poisonous atmosphere - they leave. The projects only succeed when people stop bad-mouthing each other and work together despite their disagreements.

 

[jespah]

I can't view this (I have a Windows phone) - can others?
https://www.periscope.tv/w/aVYoYDI3...CrrXIfBO4DQovu_OMnjWtlqQoGTY2h1prwucTe4xF6bk=

 

[Amaris]

I don't understand the angle question. Maybe this helps: I am an owner and admin on a site with an open source project. The open source community goes through quite the same sort of politics. So on my site, the policy is "If you have a complaint, please put it in the form of a constructive request instead so that it is clear what you want, and that what you want is not to simply complain, but to contribute."

I guess that informs my methods on anything, especially when what's going on here, with what are similar to "open source" fan productions, reminds me so strongly of an open source project.

Nothing happens when there are complaints. Solutions matter. The projects only succeed when people stop bad-mouthing each other and work together despite their disagreements.

In other words, you have a direct effect on the open source project itself. This is far, far different. We have no effect on what is going on with CBS and Axanar. We can only watch, speculate, and comment on what we're seeing happen, and what we're seeing doesn't look good at all for fan films working in the same vein as Axanar.

 

[SeerSGB]

I mentioned this a few pages back, I seem to recall one production that just wanted Lowes or Home Depot giftcards to pay for the lumber. Like you said, some just wanted a few bucks to help with the lights or the food bill. No one was trying to make a buck, indeed the opposite was true.

That was us. We like gift cards so that we know where the funds have come from.

I fine that way more reputable. Less chance for what we're seeing with Axanar and the money is already ear-marked.

...
Yeup. I'm trying to set up some online stuff (nothing big or fan related, just small stuff) and it's been a headache to find a lawyer that handles IP/Copyright law. A couple flat out said that that didn't get into to it cause it to complicated and time consuming and there isn't enough demand outside big media-corporations.

It is a very complicated area of the law. It was not my area by any means.

I would never handle my own case if I was being sued under it. I'd be a lot more comfortable going here - http://www.martindale.com/intellectual-property/s-California-law-firms-cities.htm

Way on attorney put it to me: (paraphrasing), there's not enough money in defense and the contracts to bother with it; if you go into IP/Copyright law the real money is in filing lawsuits and dragging people into court for the big networks.

 

[Amaris]

I can't view this (I have a Windows phone) - can others?
https://www.periscope.tv/w/aVYoYDI3...CrrXIfBO4DQovu_OMnjWtlqQoGTY2h1prwucTe4xF6bk=

Yes. It's a video where a male voice (I'm assuming Burnett because his name is at the bottom of the video), is asking people at a NY Eve celebration what they expect to happen in 2016. The caption reads "TEAM AXANAR celebrates the RESISTANCE (which is not futile)."

Alec says he expects to continue filming Axanar, and that all legal issues will be resolved. Then there are lots of other questions to other people in the room. The question of "what film do you want to see most in 2016" was asked, and a guy answers "Star Trek Beyond," and you can *see* the people irritated at that, and someone says "Hail Caesar, Hail Caesar" while looking most displeased.

 

[GSchnitzer]

He's damaging a thing I care about. I'll pile on as I see fit. I don't owe him anything.

If he has a problem he can come in here and defend himself like he has so aptly done these past two days. I'm sure it will be cogent and legally thought-out.

Alec Peters and his three TrekBBS usernames (Linnear, Loken, and Red Omega) have been banned from TrekBBS long ago).

 

[nx1701g]

I'm writing that the mob can determine whether this can be a positive or negative outcome, depending on their actions. I'm more interested in seeing discussion about how this could be turned into something positive instead of making it into something destructive.

My strongest recommendation for something positive would be for the people at Axanar to stop talking and try to work with CBS/Paramount to try to resolve this as best they can. At the moment this is going to only be destructive.

 

[Squiggy]

I guess that informs my methods on anything, especially when what's going on here, with what are similar to "open source" fan productions, reminds me so strongly of an open source project.

Here's the comparison.

Star Trek, like Microsoft, isn't open source. If you pass around an old Windows XP instal disk and install it on a new computer - that's technically illegal but Microsoft isn't going to put you in chains.

But if you ask for a bunch of money to make your own OS and end up taking that Windows XP disk, change some colors, put an Axanar logo on the Start Menu and then sell it as your own - you're going to incur the wrath of Redmond.

There's no "solution" to that. That is theft. The only way to solve that is to get the person stealing it to stop stealing it.