I was attempting a bit of humor there, but thanks.
CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar
- Thread starter Richard Baker
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And in the SCOTUS as "Oh, not them again."
Oops. I blame space elves.I was attempting a bit of humor there, but thanks.
So we have a representative from the Language Creation Society on our CBS/Paramount v. Axanar Facebook group, and I decided to share my thoughts on this brief, and the later response to the media from the lawyer who filed the brief.
This is a cross-post ...
Here are my thoughts on this, which I have expressed before.
First, the language was created for hire, and was not used as a way for people to communicate with each other, but to instead be a character trait for a copyrighted, fictional work.
People might choose to talk that way, sure. But that is novelty, and it is typically within the confines of the language as established by Marc Okrand. I have not been shown any real (and typical) examples where those who chose to speak in the language have added to the language in terms of vocabulary, speaking styles and such, which would be a required element in a "living language."
Like English is a "living language," because it's constantly evolving. Klingon, at least in my view, has not.
Also, copyright would not restrict people from speaking to each other in the language, or using it as a means of communication. For instance, I don't believe that if I wrote this entire post as a column on my website, and I chose to write it in Klingon — that itself would not be a copyright violation.
However, if I decided to do a commercial production, and include Klingons speaking in Klingon, that would then become potential copyright infringement.
If you read in my story (http://1701news.com/.../cbs-paramount-want-klingon-brief...) I go into a little more detail on what is known as the "substantial similarity analysis." This is where a number of individual elements, which by themselves may not be specifically copyrightable, are included as a whole to see if a challenged work is indeed derivative.
This analysis would not determine the Klingon language, for example, is copyrightable — but it could determine that the characters "Axanar" refers to as Klingons, are indeed the Klingons CBS and Paramount hold copyright to — not just on their clothing, their look, their forehead ridges, actually calling them "Klingons," — but also by the language they speak. A language that Paramount paid a linguist to create for the express purposes of creating a deeper character trait for something in the Paramount IP library.
I will admit that while I enjoyed Randazza's brief and felt he made some really good points, I felt his comment to Law360 was flippant, and actually detrimental to winning people to his side.
Instead of defending the timing of the brief, and the content of it, Randazza basically said, "I'm right and you aren't! Just fucking admit it!" And underlined that with an explicit claim that Loeb & Loeb were defrauding their clients by "padding" the books.
I don't know Randazza, but that is a bit of a low blow. And when someone — especially an attorney — starts aiming low, it makes me question the validity and strength of their claims.
I'll leave it to the court to decide, but if you had maybe been working to get me (and others) toward considering maybe the Klingon language should indeed be struck from the lawsuit, Randazza's unnecessary, flippant remarks undid it. At least for me.
This is a cross-post ...
Here are my thoughts on this, which I have expressed before.
First, the language was created for hire, and was not used as a way for people to communicate with each other, but to instead be a character trait for a copyrighted, fictional work.
People might choose to talk that way, sure. But that is novelty, and it is typically within the confines of the language as established by Marc Okrand. I have not been shown any real (and typical) examples where those who chose to speak in the language have added to the language in terms of vocabulary, speaking styles and such, which would be a required element in a "living language."
Like English is a "living language," because it's constantly evolving. Klingon, at least in my view, has not.
Also, copyright would not restrict people from speaking to each other in the language, or using it as a means of communication. For instance, I don't believe that if I wrote this entire post as a column on my website, and I chose to write it in Klingon — that itself would not be a copyright violation.
However, if I decided to do a commercial production, and include Klingons speaking in Klingon, that would then become potential copyright infringement.
If you read in my story (http://1701news.com/.../cbs-paramount-want-klingon-brief...) I go into a little more detail on what is known as the "substantial similarity analysis." This is where a number of individual elements, which by themselves may not be specifically copyrightable, are included as a whole to see if a challenged work is indeed derivative.
This analysis would not determine the Klingon language, for example, is copyrightable — but it could determine that the characters "Axanar" refers to as Klingons, are indeed the Klingons CBS and Paramount hold copyright to — not just on their clothing, their look, their forehead ridges, actually calling them "Klingons," — but also by the language they speak. A language that Paramount paid a linguist to create for the express purposes of creating a deeper character trait for something in the Paramount IP library.
I will admit that while I enjoyed Randazza's brief and felt he made some really good points, I felt his comment to Law360 was flippant, and actually detrimental to winning people to his side.
Instead of defending the timing of the brief, and the content of it, Randazza basically said, "I'm right and you aren't! Just fucking admit it!" And underlined that with an explicit claim that Loeb & Loeb were defrauding their clients by "padding" the books.
I don't know Randazza, but that is a bit of a low blow. And when someone — especially an attorney — starts aiming low, it makes me question the validity and strength of their claims.
I'll leave it to the court to decide, but if you had maybe been working to get me (and others) toward considering maybe the Klingon language should indeed be struck from the lawsuit, Randazza's unnecessary, flippant remarks undid it. At least for me.
For months and months? Must be looking for just the right dot matrix printer...
Any IT problem short of a corrupted db and no backup would be fixable in a short time for mailing labels.
Seems like they could've just used an Access database and already been done.
My thoughts exactly. My only question was whether the entire vocab/language/structure was a paid/for-hire job, or whether it was just some lines of dialog that OTHER people fleshed out. You seemed to have answered that for me.
Didn't Okrand get paid to develop systematic Klingon and Vulcan languages for Wrath of Khan?
Oh, and apparently there is some interesting background on Randazza. Like very jaw-dropping.
It will be available at the upcoming Propworx auction.Whoever has it should loan him this
Star Trek author Dave Galanter (who also penned an episode of "Star Trek: New Voyages") shares his whole story with "Star Trek: Axanar" for the first time ...
http://1701news.com/node/1177/trek-author-chronicles-his-days-axanar.html
http://1701news.com/node/1177/trek-author-chronicles-his-days-axanar.html
He wouldn't be able to justify paying the "fulfillment specialist" a salary if he adopted a common-sense, no-cost strategy.
Not that we need it, but further proof that Alec Peters is a scumbag and a fraud.
Only Lord Alec, the cockroach that he is, would think he could get away with trying to get a professional writer try to hide behind a pseudonym as a means violate a contract. I mean, fucking seriously Alec?
We all know Peters doesn't place any value on professional consideration, but for fuck's sake. What the hell kind of "professional" does he expect people believe he is?
Oh, that's right! He's a professional goddamn loudmouthed moron.
God bless Dave Galanter. Hopefully by going to Loeb & Loeb he has avoided being named a Doe and will at last be free of this wrangling idiocy.
This was likely CBS/P's plan all along when they named the Does in the suit. Scare people into thinking that they might be implicated; some of those people then jump ship to testify against Peters. It's genius!
@ Carlos and Michael:
Thank you for your latest articles.
As always regarding this Axamess.
Thank you for your latest articles.
As always regarding this Axamess.
If I recall the delay with donor perks has two issues.
1. The first problem is the shipping of partial orders. I know from some experience that unless a customer goes through channels, an incomplete online order with some companies will stay unfulfilled until the last part of it comes in. So those people waiting for the completed movie DVD, or uniforms are still waiting on their patches. Especially if they are in countries outside the United States, as Axanar wanted to keep the shipping costs down, since the donor is paying for that and good fulfillment will do its best to not double or triple charge the customer on shipping and handling if it can be avoided. Especially with much higher overseas rates.
2. The second problem is due to the perks being done through two different services (Kickstarter and Indigogo). The request...quite some time ago now, was that the donors that donated for both confirm their addresses and perks due from the multiple campaigns in order to make sure all the data from the two services was correct. I don't think everyone did so since not everyone is comfortable with Facebook, but even then notifications went out via e-mail. Assuming the donors keep up with things, and go to the Donor Store, they can find out what perks they are due and one guesses get them fulfilled if they have not so far. It will also show what perks the donor has donated for that are not available.
People that have withdrawn their donations are not longer due their perks, nor have access to the Donor Store.
1. The first problem is the shipping of partial orders. I know from some experience that unless a customer goes through channels, an incomplete online order with some companies will stay unfulfilled until the last part of it comes in. So those people waiting for the completed movie DVD, or uniforms are still waiting on their patches. Especially if they are in countries outside the United States, as Axanar wanted to keep the shipping costs down, since the donor is paying for that and good fulfillment will do its best to not double or triple charge the customer on shipping and handling if it can be avoided. Especially with much higher overseas rates.
2. The second problem is due to the perks being done through two different services (Kickstarter and Indigogo). The request...quite some time ago now, was that the donors that donated for both confirm their addresses and perks due from the multiple campaigns in order to make sure all the data from the two services was correct. I don't think everyone did so since not everyone is comfortable with Facebook, but even then notifications went out via e-mail. Assuming the donors keep up with things, and go to the Donor Store, they can find out what perks they are due and one guesses get them fulfilled if they have not so far. It will also show what perks the donor has donated for that are not available.
People that have withdrawn their donations are not longer due their perks, nor have access to the Donor Store.
Soooooooooooo basically IF Axanar never gets made donors will never get ANY perk? #screwed
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