CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[nx1701g]

These are the same people who think the new series can't take place in the Abramsverse because CBS didn't come up with the alternate timeline.

I'm a non-attorney spokesperson (quite possibly the dumbest disclaimer ever), so all I know about the law is via osmosis by being married to one and her sister being one, but this isn't that hard to figure out.

Exhibit A on the whole attempting to substitute Axanar for CBS's official production. The faithful really aren't going nothing bt giving CBS fodder.

Maybe they should start claiming that Axanar is a parody of fandom...

 

[SeerSGB]

The use of 'warp' for FTL predates Trek by some decades. The thing with words and ideas is that they're not interchangeable.

Yeahhh, and it would be pretty damned unfair if that was the case anyway because a "space warp" may be the only way to go FTL, and thus any future science fiction show trying to demonstrate a realistic future with FTL travel would be at the mercy of Trek? I don't think so.

Plus I know other science fiction series that use warps. Space Battleship Yamato uses "warp", I know some of the alien species in Doctor Who use a form of "warp" if i'm not mistaken.

"What he could bring to your project" --- you mean like a lawsuit?

No thanks.

All that talk of traitors and disloyal non Trekkers too. CULT OF PERSONALITY BABY!

You're right. But it's more than just the word, it's the portrayal of the technology. Two nacelles, big lava lamp reactor, antimatter reactor, incremental speed factors, that's Trek there buddy.

So you could get by with saying you're ship used warp as a form of FTL, but just make sure you run opposite of the way Trek portrays it.

 

[Squiggy]

Fan films should qualify under Fair Use if they aren't using specific copyrighted characters or profiting off the product....

Everything that makes Star Trek "Star Trek" has been copywritten or trademarked. The design of the ships, Vulcans, Starfleet, the Federation, transporters, phasers, etc.

I'm sure that even referring to traveling faster than the speed of light and referring to it as "warp" is a no-no.

The use of 'warp' for FTL predates Trek by some decades. The thing with words and ideas is that they're not interchangeable. As Trek fans we're conditioned to think that 'transporter' means a Trek teleport (the word most other sci-fi uses), but for a layman, a transporter is just a device from getting something from a to b. Of course there's fair use and parody, half the comedy in Stargate comes from Star Trek references, and they abound in anime (pointed eared aliens with bowl hair-cuts in Tenchi Muyo).

I think ParaCBS still operates from a position of common sense, realising that Star Trek has to be recognised in context, that IP infringement is taken as a whole, not by elements. They're not at the Taylor Swift level of idiocy yet, trying to trademark the words 'Star' and 'Trek' seperately.

I stand corrected on the "warp" terminology - but when I say "transporter" I mean calling something that breaks you up into sparklies to magically whisk you away from a here to there all while making the beamy sound".

Stargate got away with it because they weren't calling themselves Star Trek. Anime gets away with it because no sane-person would ever confuse the two.

When there's confusion as to what's real Star Trek and what isn't...then you get the suits at Television City to take steps to correct the problem. That hasn't really happened before. Fanfilms haven't - honestly - been on the level as Axanar have been so there hasn't been a need to put someone in their place yet.

Now there is.

And IF fanfilms are allowed to continue after this there will be a better definition as to what you can and can't do.

 

[nx1701g]

Another thing to consider is the CBS/Paramount lawyers may know more about Axanar's finances than the general public, including the Axanar donors. This might be a factor in why they've chosen to act at this time.

Very possible. We only have what they posted on their website to go by.

Then again, and this is from reddit, there was a poster who claimed to be from the Enterprise-D Construction Project. He claimed that he approached CBS Legal about his project and they told him they were going to go after several fan productions in 2016.

It could have just been someone claiming it happened, but then again it could be true too.

(This was discussed at the beginning of the thread on Wednesday - around page 17 I think).

Axanar might be the warning: "See what we did to these fuckers? Yeah, get your shit straight or shutdown cause you're next"

Sort of like a Cease and Desist Letter, publicly and to someone else.

 

[SeerSGB]

The use of 'warp' for FTL predates Trek by some decades. The thing with words and ideas is that they're not interchangeable.

Yeahhh, and it would be pretty damned unfair if that was the case anyway because a "space warp" may be the only way to go FTL, and thus any future science fiction show trying to demonstrate a realistic future with FTL travel would be at the mercy of Trek? I don't think so.

Plus I know other science fiction series that use warps. Space Battleship Yamato uses "warp", I know some of the alien species in Doctor Who use a form of "warp" if i'm not mistaken.

"What he could bring to your project" --- you mean like a lawsuit?

No thanks.

All that talk of traitors and disloyal non Trekkers too. CULT OF PERSONALITY BABY!

I get concerned for fans like that. Makes me wonder if they didn't have Trek if they wouldn't fall into a cult or some radical religious sect. Seems like the same mindset.

 

[JoeZhang]

Just as an aside 'existing before' doesn't stop someone registering a trademark - the BBC owns the trademark for the Tardis over objections from the metropolitan police force.

I think the same happened with Space marines.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Plus I know other science fiction series that use warps. Space Battleship Yamato uses "warp", I know some of the alien species in Doctor Who use a form of "warp" if i'm not mistaken.

Of course, real fans know it as Uchuu Senkan Yamato

 

[SeerSGB]

Just as an aside 'existing before' doesn't stop someone registering a trademark - the BBC owns the trademark for the Tardis over objections from the metropolitan police force.

I think the same happened with Space marines.

Wasn't the TARDIS trademark a big legal battle, IRC.

 

[nx1701g]

And IF fanfilms are allowed to continue after this there will be a better definition as to what you can and can't do.

I still don't think that there will be clear definitions made. I still think that this may end up like what other studios are doing when it comes to their properties. It gets announced, you get an immediate cease and desist order.

I can think of several examples. The most recent was going to be a continuation of Aliens regarding Newt. They even got Carrie Henn involved. Within a day of it being announced (I saw it on Yahoo) they had the letter from Fox Pictures.

 

[Squiggy]

I still don't think that there will be clear definitions made.

Better as in "don't do what Axanar did".

It's vague, but better than the nothing that's out there now.

 

[SeerSGB]

Alec Peters and Axanar may well signed the death warrant for Star Trek fanfilms. Which makes it all the more sad that they'll be the faithful who will defend this man and his cronies to the bitter end.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

The use of 'warp' for FTL predates Trek by some decades. The thing with words and ideas is that they're not interchangeable.

Yeahhh, and it would be pretty damned unfair if that was the case anyway because a "space warp" may be the only way to go FTL, and thus any future science fiction show trying to demonstrate a realistic future with FTL travel would be at the mercy of Trek? I don't think so.

Plus I know other science fiction series that use warps. Space Battleship Yamato uses "warp", I know some of the alien species in Doctor Who use a form of "warp" if i'm not mistaken.

"What he could bring to your project" --- you mean like a lawsuit?

No thanks.

All that talk of traitors and disloyal non Trekkers too. CULT OF PERSONALITY BABY!

You're right. But it's more than just the word, it's the portrayal of the technology. Two nacelles, big lava lamp reactor, antimatter reactor, incremental speed factors, that's Trek there buddy.

So you could get by with saying you're ship used warp as a form of FTL, but just make sure you run opposite of the way Trek portrays it.

A sci-fi show with a ship powered by warp drive is fine. And as real world science tends to trump trademarks and copyright (unless copyrighted itself), a matter antimatter reactor is fine too (as long as it doesn't look like a giant neon light-bulb clad pipe) as matter and antimatter annihilation is the most energetic reaction known to science. But if I stick dilithium in there, my bottom will be very sore, and certain lawyers a lot richer. Of course a typo can save on dosh too, as in Spaceballs' Worp Factors...

But generally I think that way lies technobabble insanity. I think Firefly had it right with its Pakled approach. The ship has an engine, it makes the ship go. Kaylee fixes engine...

 

[starburst]

Very possible. We only have what they posted on their website to go by.

Then again, and this is from reddit, there was a poster who claimed to be from the Enterprise-D Construction Project. He claimed that he approached CBS Legal about his project and they told him they were going to go after several fan productions in 2016.

It could have just been someone claiming it happened, but then again it could be true too.

(This was discussed at the beginning of the thread on Wednesday - around page 17 I think).

Is the 'Enterprise-D Construction Project' the virtual 3d simulator? That one I hope CBS one day does do a deal with as that thing looks amazing.

As for fan films, if the information is correct I wouldn't be surprised; As others have said previously I have too had a feeling that fan productions were at risk with the new series announcement.

If further cases are brought I really don't think it will be a case of "Axanar throwing everyone else under the bus" but that Axanar is the more clear cut case for them to go after first. If you are all really sure that Axanar is finished ask yourself why go after someone like Continues or New Voyages first with more risk when you can go after someone who has used the IP without approval (which they all have) but would appear to be using money to build a business (which is what I get from the majority of commenters).

Go for a sure slam dunk first to set a precedent making it easier to go for the others. Maybe I am a little pessimistic.

Fan films should qualify under Fair Use if they aren't using specific copyrighted characters or profiting off the product....

Everything that makes Star Trek "Star Trek" has been copywritten or trademarked. The design of the ships, Vulcans, Starfleet, the Federation, transporters, phasers, etc.

I'm sure that even referring to traveling faster than the speed of light and referring to it as "warp" is a no-no.

The use of 'warp' for FTL predates Trek by some decades. The thing with words and ideas is that they're not interchangeable. As Trek fans we're conditioned to think that 'transporter' means a Trek teleport (the word most other sci-fi uses), but for a layman, a transporter is just a device from getting something from a to b. Of course there's fair use and parody, half the comedy in Stargate comes from Star Trek references, and they abound in anime (pointed eared aliens with bowl hair-cuts in Tenchi Muyo).

I think ParaCBS still operates from a position of common sense, realising that Star Trek has to be recognised in context, that IP infringement is taken as a whole, not by elements. They're not at the Taylor Swift level of idiocy yet, trying to trademark the words 'Star' and 'Trek' seperately.

I've wondered about this sort of thing for a while, with terms like Warp, Transporter etc... I assume in other works the use of these terms is a case by case basis; Stargate for example used the "Phasers" and "Photon Torpedoes" once or twice as jokes to allude to Star Trek, but when it came to Asgard tech which looked and worked almost the same way as Star Trek's Transporter they simply called it "beaming".

The other thing I have always wondered about is it I were a mad hot scientist/engineer with the millions (understatement) to fund (which admittedly I dreamt I was when I was younger... Don't deny it I know some of you did too) the design and construction of a spacecraft which was similar in look and function as a Star Trek ship would you then be sued for making it real without a licence (I would imagine so... but I imagine it wouldn't be difficult to make a deal as selling those inventions would make you and the IP holders rich).

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Very possible. We only have what they posted on their website to go by.

Then again, and this is from reddit, there was a poster who claimed to be from the Enterprise-D Construction Project. He claimed that he approached CBS Legal about his project and they told him they were going to go after several fan productions in 2016.

It could have just been someone claiming it happened, but then again it could be true too.

(This was discussed at the beginning of the thread on Wednesday - around page 17 I think).

Is the 'Enterprise-D Construction Project' the virtual 3d simulator? That one I hope CBS one day does do a deal with as that thing looks amazing.

As for fan films, if the information is correct I wouldn't be surprised; As others have said previously I have too had a feeling that fan productions were at risk with the new series announcement.

If further cases are brought I really don't think it will be a case of "Axanar throwing everyone else under the bus" but that Axanar is the more clear cut case for them to go after first. If you are all really sure that Axanar is finished ask yourself why go after someone like Continues or New Voyages first with more risk when you can go after someone who has used the IP without approval (which they all have) but would appear to be using money to build a business (which is what I get from the majority of commenters).

Go for a sure slam dunk first to set a precedent making it easier to go for the others. Maybe I am a little pessimistic.

Everything that makes Star Trek "Star Trek" has been copywritten or trademarked. The design of the ships, Vulcans, Starfleet, the Federation, transporters, phasers, etc.

I'm sure that even referring to traveling faster than the speed of light and referring to it as "warp" is a no-no.

The use of 'warp' for FTL predates Trek by some decades. The thing with words and ideas is that they're not interchangeable. As Trek fans we're conditioned to think that 'transporter' means a Trek teleport (the word most other sci-fi uses), but for a layman, a transporter is just a device from getting something from a to b. Of course there's fair use and parody, half the comedy in Stargate comes from Star Trek references, and they abound in anime (pointed eared aliens with bowl hair-cuts in Tenchi Muyo).

I think ParaCBS still operates from a position of common sense, realising that Star Trek has to be recognised in context, that IP infringement is taken as a whole, not by elements. They're not at the Taylor Swift level of idiocy yet, trying to trademark the words 'Star' and 'Trek' seperately.

I've wondered about this sort of thing for a while, with terms like Warp, Transporter etc... I assume in other works the use of these terms is a case by case basis; Stargate for example used the "Phasers" and "Photon Torpedoes" once or twice as jokes to allude to Star Trek, but when it came to Asgard tech which looked and worked almost the same way as Star Trek's Transporter they simply called it "beaming".

The other thing I have always wondered about is it I were a mad hot scientist/engineer with the millions (understatement) to fund (which admittedly I dreamt I was when I was younger... Don't deny it I know some of you did too) the design and construction of a spacecraft which was similar in look and function as a Star Trek ship would you then be sued for making it real without a licence (I would imagine so... but I imagine it wouldn't be difficult to make a deal as selling those inventions would make you and the IP holders rich).

Arn't the ship designs registered as "toys" with the US Patent Office?

 

[SeerSGB]

Axnar made the funny pages: Multiplex Comic #1088: Star Trek Into Dorkness

From the author's note on the page:

...The fact is, they can’t claim that this is fair use just because they don’t; fair use is only decided by a judge or a jury. Similarly, while I believe that Multiplex’s use of posters and film stills is fair use because of—at various times—commentary, criticism and parody… only a judge or jury can say that it IS fair use. At this point, there isn’t really much legal precedent for works like this, and that’s what I find interesting about this lawsuit.

If it does make it to court, this could be either very good or very bad for people who like playing with other peoples' intellectual toys—as well as for people like me who want to comment on media through other media.

 

[nx1701g]

Is the 'Enterprise-D Construction Project' the virtual 3d simulator? That one I hope CBS one day does do a deal with as that thing looks amazing.

Yes. There was a link to reddit earlier in the thread that had a poster talking about this project and the comments that CBSLegal informed them they would be going after fan projects in the future.

Again, I don't know how true it is. It could be someone just trying to stoke the fire of fear, or it could be genuine.

As for fan films, if the information is correct I wouldn't be surprised; As others have said previously I have too had a feeling that fan productions were at risk with the new series announcement.

If further cases are brought I really don't think it will be a case of "Axanar throwing everyone else under the bus" but that Axanar is the more clear cut case for them to go after first. If you are all really sure that Axanar is finished ask yourself why go after someone like Continues or New Voyages first with more risk when you can go after someone who has used the IP without approval (which they all have) but would appear to be using money to build a business (which is what I get from the majority of commenters).

Go for a sure slam dunk first to set a precedent making it easier to go for the others. Maybe I am a little pessimistic.

Makes sense.

The other thing I have always wondered about is it I were a mad hot scientist/engineer with the millions (understatement) to fund (which admittedly I dreamt I was when I was younger... Don't deny it I know some of you did too) the design and construction of a spacecraft which was similar in look and function as a Star Trek ship would you then be sued for making it real without a licence (I would imagine so... but I imagine it wouldn't be difficult to make a deal as selling those inventions would make you and the IP holders rich).

I don't know how true this is but I recall reading that Gene Roddenberry put in the contract clauses he had with CBS/Paramount that if a scientist built technology from Star Trek that truly functioned then they could name it after the corresponding device in the Trek universe.

 

[oswriter]

I've wondered about this sort of thing for a while, with terms like Warp, Transporter etc... I assume in other works the use of these terms is a case by case basis; Stargate for example used the "Phasers" and "Photon Torpedoes" once or twice as jokes to allude to Star Trek, but when it came to Asgard tech which looked and worked almost the same way as Star Trek's Transporter they simply called it "beaming".

Here's how Paramount and CBS define their copyright claims in the Axanar lawsuit:

Plaintiffs own the exclusive right to develop, create, and/or produce motion pictures and television shows based on the Star Trek Copyrighted Works, including but not limited to the characters, themes, plots, dialogue, settings, sequences, situations, and incidents therein, and also the props, character makeup, costumes, sets, fictional language, events, and fictional history.

The use of "fictional language" and "fictional history" is especially telling. Basically they're saying you can't use terminology or even dates referred to in canon. Not sure a judge would read the copyright that broadly, but it provides some insight into how the studio lawyers are thinking.

 

[Squiggy]

Is there a list somewhere about what actually is trademarked - not just regarding this suit but Trek in general?

 

[mos6507]

The people producing Renegades used the prospect of pitching their completed film to CBS as a pilot as an incentive/possibility once they finished their first film.

What you probably meant to type here is they used the prospect of pitching their film to CBS as an incentive/possibility as a way to fund it back at the crowdfunding stage. That is what raised a lot of alarm bells back then, that they were intentionally mislabeling the project as a way to goose the funding. Since projects don't ever get greenlit this way, and yes, the project didn't get greenlit, then in retrospect it looks simply like a gimmick. The whole corrupting force of money making it more about marketing than storytelling that is where we are on the fan-film continuum.

You think Paramount is gonna get people working on Star Trek Beyond for freebies?

At the same time, it's not true that Hollywood happily pays everyone what they're worth. VFX houses in particular have seriously gotten the shaft (Rhythm & Hughes situation anyone?) And Hollywood is notorious for its creative accounting that cheats people out of their contractual royalty cuts. And as for unions, well, think of how much work winds up moving to non-Union locations these days. Seems like more the norm than the exception, and it's been tilting that way at least since the early 90s (X-Files in Canada was kind of a trendsetter, and one of the major locations of ST: Beyond)

So let's not go overboard on presenting the TV/Film industry as a paragon of virtuous business practices.

 

[dub]

Alec Peters and Axanar may well signed the death warrant for Star Trek fanfilms. Which makes it all the more sad that they'll be the faithful who will defend this man and his cronies to the bitter end.

If that happens, Peters will be seen as a martyr for fan films by his supporters, not as the reason for their demise. "Drinking the Kool-Aid" ain't just a fun little phrase.