CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[muCephi]

Or Ares Digital, which is now in place for delivering all-new digital content. I am of the opinion that this is the end reason Ares Digital was conceived and implemented.

It was my understanding that this was all Axanar, headed by Terry. At least, their statements to this point give that distinct impression (I believe it was in the first Axanar thread, where Terry was answering questions).

Interesting. If they have any patent applications in the works, CBS/P should definitely discover them/research them; they are potential assets to be recovered if they were developed on CBS' dime.

New on AxaMonitor today:
PETERS: NO COMMENT on whether he is a member of the investor group buying the Ares Studios assets from Axanar Productions — Donors will find out first — Attorneys say they're OK with studio sale — Claims the studio is not an asset worth any money. Read more »

I have been wondering about how they have insisted that the investor group is focused on the rent. Why isn't the investor group buying the soundstage/ or is it somehow implied they are getting it?

Now we see Axanar Productions claiming that 'they have no assets'. OOOOKKKKK, then what was the 2nd kickstarter about? "Building infrastructure for this and future productions"? Sorry for being such a noodge about your own words.

Journalists and other commentators should, I think, attach a permanent constantly revisited flag to this assertion that "they have no assets". What concrete consequences is AP seeking to create out of this assertion? How does it square with the Kickstarter?

I'd like to know how they became "cash strapped". I don't remember the initial estimates for Prelude/Axanar, but it was way WAY less than 1.3 million. I know they upgraded everything, carpet included, but they were also "just weeks away from filming" a few short months ago.

How do you go from wildly exceeding your target donations and being ready to film to being cash strapped in three months?

Here is another reframing that those following the case should really focus on.

It seems its still as simple as "follow the money". Not the fans, not the quality, not Alec's bans.

They say that in spite of wildly exceeding their planned budgets, they are in a cashflow pinch and they have no assets of value and they have a bunch more work to do before they even produce a film. So where has all the money gone?

 

[jespah]

Holy crap, I just realized I haven't been around here for a few weeks owing to real/life/work. But, like Beetlejuice, if you say my name I reappear, Luckily I also answer to "someone upthread".

(And, no, it is not in the least a bit scary that "upthread" - when I was last active - was 40 or 50 pages ago. You folk really keep things moving. I've read Jespah's blog and the other writing around the latest motion to dismiss (such as Axamonitor) and it's all really good stuff. To @jespah and @carlosp you listen.)...

Back into my burrow.

M

Aw, thanks! I need to crawl back into my homework burrow.

This area of law is messy. Pity we don't have nine Justices. At some point, a disagreement between circuits and/or the general weirdness surrounding it should become something the Supremes would want to address. Highly doubtful it would be this case, of course (in the sense that most cases never, ever get as far as all that).

I am sure the US Supreme Court doesn't want to get into the weedy minutiae of the shade of colors and the sharpness of angles on the insignia of Captain America's shield in an authorized fan film or a near-copy allegedly original similar knock-off (Captain Vespucciland). But at some point, as graphics programs and cameras and green screens become more ubiquitous and affordable, and crowdfunding stays big and open and a lot like the Wild West, they might find they have to.

 

[muCephi]

I mentioned before about this nonprofit application: it isn't enough to show you are 'managing your books like a nonprofit' (whatever that means to AP), to qualify for nonprofit status. You have to have a stated purpose that qualifies, and critically, you have to have been conducting your *operations* in alignment with that purpose.

The construction of Ares Digital, the commingling of resources with Propworx if that is true, the investment of money into a soundstage which at least by some interpretations of the stated purposes is not to forward a nonprofit mission, the absence of a Board of Directors structure (not required in all cases, but considered a strong indicator of validity), these sorts of things are not overcome by showing books that somehow net out at zero profit.

 

[BillJ]

Still don't understand why someone(s) would invest in a company with no physical or intellectual assets?

Smells dirty to me.

 

[MikeH92467]

The crowdfunding anarchy reminds me of the early days of commercial radio when it was unregulated. Power levels and frequency assignments were up for grabs. Eventually the interference became so bad that no one could hear anything because of all the cross-talk and interference. The radio industry finally went crawling to Washington begging them to bring order to the chaos. The Federal Radio Act of 1927 helped restore some since of order, even though it was far from perfect. The analogy isn't perfect, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the bigger players did ask for some kind of regulation to curb some of the worst abuses. Of course, it might also limit competition, but I'm sure the ones who get there first wouldn't have any problem with potentially reducing potentially disruptive competitors.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Look... How about we spend a few moments of our lives forgetting about Axanar, take a deep breath, and gaze upon a dashing and well dressed Englishman instead?

Me and 323231 by N7242C, on Flickr

 

[Jedi_Master]

Still don't understand why someone(s) would invest in a company with no physical or intellectual assets?

Smells dirty to me.

I don't see conspiracy, I see charity (although conspiracy is certainly a viable option). I see the idiot cousin getting bailed out by the family once again after he ran yet another business into the ground. Remember this whole "private investor" stuff came after Alec traveled to Arizona and had a dinner with some of his biggest fans (all five of them). It seems logical to me that high-dollar supporters like those people would have responded positively to ol' Alec turning on the water works and discussing the "obstacles to his vision." The nucleus of the "private investor" bailout likely came, in my opinion, from that dinner. A group of fans would pitch in the 400k or so and help Alec free himself from the unbearable burden of having to actually do anything with his life.

 

[muCephi]

Look... How about we spend a few moments of our lives forgetting about Axanar, take a deep breath, and gaze upon a dashing and well dressed Englishman instead?

Me and 323231 by N7242C, on Flickr

ooo, which model of train is that?

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

ooo, which model of train is that?

Class 323 EMU... Taken at Manchester PIccadilly early hours of 1st April after arrival (the lights are set to "forward" for the empty train to the sidings that happened a few minutes afterwards) of the last ever Northern Rail service before the company closed and changed hands. I was the only enthusiast onboard and spoke to the guard and driver at both ends of the trip

 

[Noname Given]

Communicating that & convincing both a jury and 'the faithful' will take some skill.........so far, I haven't seen much of it coming from Axanar's counsel (despite their supposed stellar reputations)

In Civil matters (where you only need 9 or 12 jurors to find you guilty for a guilty verdict); if:
- You're just plain/obviously guilty of doing what the Plaintiff aledges.
and
- You JUST WON'T SHUT THE F**K UP and continue to make conflicting statements in the public eye.

The BEST lawyer on the planet couldn't 'get you off' UNLESS it's on some technicality; and W&S are throwing any/every ridiculous argument they can at the Judge hoping he'll agree with one or more and dismiss the case or dismiss large portions of it.

The problem is: When you basically argue that "In our view NOTHING in the Star trek franchise is legally copyrightable..." <-- Which is what W&S's MTD boils down to at it's core - in effect saying: "Hey, Star Trek is in the Public Domain so no copyright suit can be brought..." - chances are good the Judge (after having a good laugh in chambers because such an argument is absurd - and Judge's are human too - hence the good laugh) - the expected outcome is that the case will go forward and move into discovery.
^^^
If that DOESN'T happen, I'll be as surprised as everyone else. We'll see.

 

[Michael Hinman]

If the in-courtroom play is fair use, which seems likely, then it seems to me, though IANAL, that the motion to dismiss cannot undermine the requisite affirmative defense strategy that will be employed or prejudice the judge against such a strategy.
-----
FWIW, the 9th Circuit recently schooled Universal MG (lenz v UMG) on a common misconception on fair use and affirmative defense: that fair use is "an infringement, excused." According their read of the law, there are three entities that can authorize the use of a copyrighted work: the owners, the owners agents, and the law. They explicitly reiterated that fair use is a "right" and a use "authorized by the law." I read the amended ruling at the eff.org site here ( IV B is where the fair use discussion occurs)

Someone upthread used the analogy of kids in your yard, Well, in my state, that 30 inch wide strip of concrete that bisects my yard is an assessed part of my property, I pay taxes on its square footage and yet I can't restrict the access to it and the kids run up and down and play on the fair use sidewalk all day long.

A lot of properties have easements. It's not unique to you.

And not sure what this has to do with anything.

 

[Jedi_Master]

In Civil matters (where you only need 9 or 12 jurors to find you guilty for a guilty verdict); if:
- You're just plain/obviously guilty of doing what the Plaintiff aledges.
and
- You JUST WON'T SHUT THE F**K UP and continue to make conflicting statements in the public eye.

The BEST lawyer on the planet couldn't 'get you off' UNLESS it's on some technicality; and W&S are throwing any/every ridiculous argument they can at the Judge hoping he'll agree with one or more and dismiss the case or dismiss large portions of it.

The problem is: When you basically argue that "In our view NOTHING in the Star trek franchise is legally copyrightable..." <-- Which is what W&S's MTD boils down to at it's core - in effect saying: "Hey, Star Trek is in the Public Domain so no copyright suit can be brought..." - chances are good the Judge (after having a good laugh in chambers because such an argument is absurd - and Judge's are human too - hence the good laugh) - the expected outcome is that the case will go forward and move into discovery.
^^^
If that DOESN'T happen, I'll be as surprised as everyone else. We'll see.

The AP legal team's arguments don't pass the smell test, but it will be up to CBS/P's legal team to clearly and carefully explain that to the jury. People today are more inclined than ever to "stick it to the man" so CBS/P - if the suit goes to trial - will have to explain why they aren't the Evil Empire.

 

[Red Shirt]

Interesting. If they have any patent applications in the works, CBS/P should definitely discover them/research them; they are potential assets to be recovered if they were developed on CBS' dime.



I have been wondering about how they have insisted that the investor group is focused on the rent. Why isn't the investor group buying the soundstage/ or is it somehow implied they are getting it?

Now we see Axanar Productions claiming that 'they have no assets'. OOOOKKKKK, then what was the 2nd kickstarter about? "Building infrastructure for this and future productions"? Sorry for being such a noodge about your own words.

Journalists and other commentators should, I think, attach a permanent constantly revisited flag to this assertion that "they have no assets". What concrete consequences is AP seeking to create out of this assertion? How does it square with the Kickstarter?



Here is another reframing that those following the case should really focus on.

It seems its still as simple as "follow the money". Not the fans, not the quality, not Alec's bans.

They say that in spite of wildly exceeding their planned budgets, they are in a cashflow pinch and they have no assets of value and they have a bunch more work to do before they even produce a film. So where has all the money gone?

I agree, follow the money. Whether AP & Co. are willing to admit it or not, collectively Axanar Works is a capitalist for-profit income generating venture built with donor dollars off of CBS/P's intellectual property.

Propworx is housed at Ares Studios conducting auctions so AP does have an income from sales yet is paying himself a salary from Axanar donor money. Is that honest?

Ares Digital is being leased out to other fundme campaigns at cost (per Axanar podcast 31) yet there is no mention of Ares Digital in the Axanar Annual Report for income generated nor was it mentioned in any fundme campaign that I'm aware of that donors were paying for Ares Digital. Furthermore, Terry has spent time since 2014 working on Ares Digital and now that it's fully completed (supposedly), patches can finally be mailed out. Since AP assures everyone that no one works for free at Axanar Works, what is Terry's salary for working on Ares Digital? Since no patches have been sent out for Axanar yet, what has Dianna been doing justifying her 60 hr a week salary?

Then of course are the grandiose plans for a film school, future filming projects to fund Ares Studios, and licensing & merchandise (with CBS/P I.P.) All those donor dollars were a stepping stone for an AP controlled business conglomerate. The "fan film" was incidental and secondary to investing donor money into the infrastructure of the Axanar Works business and of course "everyone is getting paid" for full time and part time work, I.E paid employees.

With all of the above said, is that really what donors were told they were donating towards? I say Axanar is a bait and switch. Bait because donors are told this is a fan film, switch because donors are paying for a business owned by AP far exceeding what is needed to make that one film. And there were plans for another fundme campaign for other half of Axanar. The other half? WTF? And an Axanar coffee table book. And what "fan film" needs to sell friggin coffee with CBS/P's I.P.?

Axanar reminds me of AP selling props and memorabilia reassuring his customers he's shopped around for the best shipping company and lo and behold, when the auction is over he's slamming people with outrageous hidden shipping charges from the shipping company he never bothered to admit he owns until some very irate customers did some investigating. Axanar is a slimy repeat of slimy Propworx and how Alec Peters is out to rip people off if you let him.

 

[carlosp]

I'd like to know how they became "cash strapped". I don't remember the initial estimates for Prelude/Axanar, but it was way WAY less than 1.3 million. I know they upgraded everything, carpet included, but they were also "just weeks away from filming" a few short months ago.

How do you go from wildly exceeding your target donations and being ready to film to being cash strapped in three months?

Actually, the part about "wildly exceeding your target donations" is pure hype. If you look at the graphs in the article, Ambition vs. Achievement, posted on AxaMonitor yesterday, you'll see that their actual fundraising performance fell well short of their ever-increasing targets.

As far as being "cash-strapped" take a look at the graph in the article labeled Axanar's Budget Gap. Note the difference between their cash on hand when the Indiegogo campaign was closed down, and the amount they have yet to raise in order to make their production budget. It's huge. Plus, they are bleeding money each month on rent and utilities while the production Is stalled.

 

[Jedman67]

Plus, they are bleeding money

THAT'S WHY Spock has green blood - he bleeds money!!!!

 

[Jedi_Master]

Actually, the part about "wildly exceeding your target donations" is pure hype. If you look at the graphs in the article, Ambition vs. Achievement, posted on AxaMonitor yesterday, you'll see that their actual fundraising performance fell well short of their ever-increasing targets.

As far as being "cash-strapped" take a look at the graph in the article labeled Axanar's Budget Gap. Note the difference between their cash on hand when the Indiegogo campaign was closed down, and the amount they have yet to raise in order to make their production budget. It's huge. Plus, they are bleeding money each month on rent and utilities while the production Is stalled.

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't their "production budget" include funding the infrastructure of Ares Studios?

 

[muCephi]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't their "production budget" include funding the infrastructure of Ares Studios?

that is a part to lay bare. My sense it it is 'taking so long' not directly because ever expanding quality goals require more money directly spent on producing things used in the film, but because those goals are considered license to build permanent infrastructure far beyond what is required to just do the film, as long as the film eventually results too.

Axanar Lemonade Stand
Prospectus

phase 1: mommy can you give us some money for lemons and sugar? let us show you how good a drink we can make.

phase 2: mommy can you buy us a lemon grove, sign a lease for a warehouse in Florida where we will make all sorts of drinks someday, and pay us and our staff so we can sell for donations the very bestest lemonade at the stand in our front yard?

phase 3: mommy can you give us another million so that our stand in the front yard is made of gold and offers the finest crystal to our few customers and we can reinvest most of the million in franchising the home-funded/donation-paid business model and merchandise our warehouse factory-made drinks?

addendum: but you SAID just take what you need from the purse! Why didn't you TELL US if you were going to say no partway through?

addendum 2: all the customers love the idea of the golden lemonade stand experience!!! This plan is a win-win for everyone!!!

 

[Red Shirt]

that is a part to lay bare. My sense it it is 'taking so long' not directly because ever expanding quality goals require more money directly spent on producing things used in the film, but because those goals are considered license to build permanent infrastructure far beyond what is required to just do the film, as long as the film eventually results too.

Axanar Lemonade Stand
Prospectus

phase 1: mommy can you give us some money for lemons and sugar? let us show you how good a drink we can make.

phase 2: mommy can you buy us a lemon grove, sign a lease for a warehouse in Florida where we will make all sorts of drinks someday, and pay us and our staff so we can sell for donations the very bestest lemonade at the stand in our front yard?

phase 3: mommy can you give us another million so that our stand in the front yard is made of gold and offers the finest crystal to our few customers and we can reinvest most of the million in franchising the home-funded/donation-paid business model and merchandise our warehouse factory-made drinks?

addendum: but you SAID just take what you need from the purse! Why didn't you TELL US if you were going to say no partway through?

How apropos, AxaLemons. Great analogy! Alec's faulty reasoning and fallacious smoke screens thus far from his online comments and interviews is .... Fans! The Fans want, the Fans demand, the Fans are impressed, I'm doing this for the Fans. No sacrifice is too small as long as it's for the Fans. Please donate more money with check, money order, credit card, paypal and bit coins because the Fans say it is okay for me to steal IP building my Hollywood production company empire.

I fully expect Alec to jump up from his courtroom chair with spittle flying from his mouth yelling at the judge ... FANS!

 

[BillJ]

How apropos, AxaLemons. Great analogy! Alec's faulty reasoning and fallacious smoke screens thus far from his online comments and interviews is .... Fans! The Fans want, the Fans demand, the Fans are impressed, I'm doing this for the Fans. No sacrifice is too small as long as it's for the Fans. Please donate more money with check, money order, credit card, paypal and bit coins because the Fans say it is okay for me to steal IP building my Hollywood production company empire.

I fully expect Alec to jump up from his courtroom chair with spittle flying from his mouth yelling at the the judge ... FANS!

I won't be surprised if he asks the judge for a donation while on the stand.

 

[Red Shirt]

I won't be surprised if he asks the judge for a donation while on the stand.

And then telling the judge if you rule against me I'm banning you from Axanar sites ... don't turn into a "hater."