CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[Tom]

This is true. Peters explained this to me in an FB message in March of 2014, in which he criticized Renegades for doing exactly this. At the time, he was pretty upset about the amount of money they were raising.

I do believe Alec did talk to CBS from time to time, however he was not talking the right people. CBS is a big company and it was the higher-ups (and of course Paramount) are the ones that decided to sue. Frank the janitor at CBS can't help him out with that one.

Alec was always trying to 'one-up' us and he would be hot and cold towards STR, even though we had him on our set the first 3 days and gave him a consulting producer credit. This past summer I called him out, via email exchange, on a couple of things in regards to the Axanar Indiegogo campaign. I wanted to see Axanar be made, like most of you, but I'm sure as hell not going to be quiet when he was making remarks about the way we conducted our campaign and production. STR got made as promised, and our team is very proud of that.

 

[David cgc]

The arguement that fan films are 'original stories' is also somewhat flawed, for the same reason G. R Martin suggested fanfic isn't the best way to hone in writing skills. With most fan productions, two of the biggest components of writing a story (characters and setting) has usually already been completed by others. Thats not saying a lot of work is not put into said plots by the fan-writers, but the story simply wouldn't exist (in its current form) without a lot of the work having already been done.

You mean like how Mario Puzo had "two of the biggest components" done by reality when he wrote "The Godfather" and set it in real places and times, with characters based on real people? What a lazy hack! He should've done something original to hone his craft as a writer.

Legally speaking, which is all that matters, anything that wasn't in Star Trek is original to (and thus owned by) Axanar, whether it's a situation, a character, a ship, or a line of dialogue. Just like how GRRM doesn't own swords or dragons, and Puzo doesn't own mobsters. The problem is, in this case, someone else does own those sort of details.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

He is saying that to keep the backers happy even though he has no way of knowing what will happen. There could be some type of settlement, but as you said, 'Star Trek' Axanar will never see the light of day. At this point I'm sure his main concern is keeping the studio and not having to pay damages, then he can make a non Star Trek version of Axanar, or Star Wolf , Etc..

I actually think, I am shocked that he is finally taking a good PR approach. Be upbeat, don't knock CBS, stop calling your critics haters, and call them critics... just overall good pr strategy FINALLY....

If it weren't against the law to steal, would it be moral?

Because that's the thinking behind claims that this is a morally ambiguous situation. It is not.

No, it still wouldn't be moral. Taking what doesn't belong to you, is immoral, it's a violation of someone else's rights... the fact that this isn't blatantly obvious to some, is beyond me.

I do believe Alec did talk to CBS from time to time, however he was not talking the right people. CBS is a big company and it was the higher-ups (and of course Paramount) are the ones that decided to sue. Frank the janitor at CBS can't help him out with that one.

Alec was always trying to 'one-up' us and he would be hot and cold towards STR, even though we had him on our set the first 3 days and gave him a consulting producer credit. This past summer I called him out, via email exchange, on a couple of things in regards to the Axanar Indiegogo campaign. I wanted to see Axanar be made, like most of you, but I'm sure as hell not going to be quiet when he was making remarks about the way we conducted our campaign and production. STR got made as promised, and our team is very proud of that.

I think Alec had relationships with the licensing people at CBS, from what I have read. And while those people may have the ability to give Think Geek permission to make Enterprise pizza cutters, they don't have the ability, to give implied consent to fan films. Alec should be smart enough to know that, *BUT* would a Jury? If there is a "Jury Trial" I think thats where the defense will hang their hat. It may not save Axanar, but it may let them keep their shirts.

 

[dahj]

I do believe Alec did talk to CBS from time to time, however he was not talking the right people.

It seems the right people did talk to him but he didn't listen:
“CBS has not authorized, sanctioned or licensed this project in any way, and this has been communicated to those involved. We continue to object to professional commercial ventures trading off our property rights and are considering further options to protect these rights.”
(Source from back in August)

He clearly was aware that he was crossing a line but he just ignored them, hence lawsuit.

 

[Albinator]

Legally speaking, which is all that matters, anything that wasn't in Star Trek is original to (and thus owned by) Axanar, whether it's a situation, a character, a ship, or a line of dialogue.

Not necessarily. Captain Ramirez is a Federation captain, the Ares is a Starfleet ship-- who's look and feel is distinctively "Star Trek." Long story short:characters, locations, ships and even dialog and plot points that are intrinsically linked with Star Trek IP are not legally original, and were not created with permission.

Now, i'm no lawyer, but had the film been completed, I can't imagine that Axanar could claim ownership over them because they are infringing. It's unlikely Paramount/CBS would ever try to take ownership themselves, but they could probably win a case to gain ownership if they felt so inclined.

 

[Trekfan12]

I don't think CBS really understands how to treat Trekkies. I know that it's always been about $$$$ but it's also how they respect our feelings about the show. These characters are more than just images on a screen (small and big) for us. For me it's more personal. The show has meant so much to me. It's expanded so far beyond through books and fan's creating their own shows. and of course FANZINES.

I would hope that CBS would wise up. I hope that I can see the new series without paying for their access service. I am still not happy the show is leaving Amazon

 

[Tom]

Regarding 'Fair Use' and what has been produced so far, they may have a case with Prelude do to it's mocumentary nature, but the Vulcan scene is what will screw them over, that is definitely derivative.

As for 'Waiver', this is a copyright case not a trademark case. The IP owner can be selective with copyright violations. If the defense tries to dig into this, it will bring up comparisons to other higher end fan productions. The prosecution will then throw in all the 'profit' issues (for profit studio, salaries, etc..) to support their case.

I think Alec's lawyers are just hoping this will drum up publicity, that will help advertise their firm. It's to bad that Saul Goodman working at a Cinnabon in Nebraska.

 

[Campe]

I am still not happy the show is leaving Amazon

Has this actually been confirmed or is it still just a rumor? Shows tend to say they're "disappearing" from these streaming sites and then their contracts are renewed. Last I heard it was just speculation,

 

[Mudd]

You mean like how Mario Puzo had "two of the biggest components" done by reality when he wrote "The Godfather" and set it in real places and times, with characters based on real people? .

Of course, no one holds copyright on any part of "reality." There is no creator with legal or moral standing to file a claim.

Copyright is copyright - I have a moral and legal right to what I create, including the right to transfer that to someone else (if one can't buy and sell property, it's not really theirs). At the point that I transfer ownership to someone else, it's theirs.

That's not complicated.

 

[Mudd]

I don't think CBS really understands how to treat Trekkies. I know that it's always been about $$$$ but it's also how they respect our feelings about the show. These characters are more than just images on a screen (small and big) for us. For me it's more personal. The show has meant so much to me. It's expanded so far beyond through books and fan's creating their own shows. and of course FANZINES.

You can feel any way you like about something, but your feelings don't confer legal or moral obligations on someone else.

CBS owns Star Trek. You don't, I don't, and Alec Peters doesn't.

Beyond that, it's a tiny number of trekkies who are bitching about all this. Judging from the returns on the last couple of movies CBS and Paramount know well enough what most fans want.

I would hope that CBS would wise up. I hope that I can see the new series without paying for their access service. I am still not happy the show is leaving Amazon

The show's going to be on CBS All Access. CBS really has no other reason to produce it.

 

[Albinator]

I don't think CBS really understands how to treat Trekkies.

Tell me how exactly they've mistreated Trekkies in this situation.

I know that it's always been about $$$$ but it's also how they respect our feelings about the show. These characters are more than just images on a screen (small and big) for us. For me it's more personal.

As much as I love Trek (and I watch it nearly daily)-- I have to say, maybe you need to take a step back if it's that personal to you. It is just a televsion show. One we're all passionate about, but at the end of the day it's a fictional TV/Movie franchise. That's it.

I hope that I can see the new series without paying for their access service. I am still not happy the show is leaving Amazon.

If you're really so passionate about Trek, paying $10 a month shouldn't be too much for you. You already have Amazon, after all, clearly. I have all the Trek DVD's but would happily spend an extra $10 monthly to not have to bother with them-- I can much easily watch any episode I want with the flick of a wrist or press of a button, and with all the Trek I want $10 monthly works out to about .10 cents an episode.

If you want, i'm sure there will be dozens of websites illegally streaming them or torrents you can download illegally from. But frankly, $10 a month for All Access is much simpler and easier (and safer for your computer's health).

 

[Mudd]

In fact, It's only six bucks a month.

 

[Albinator]

True-- but I fairly suspect they will raise it before 2017, or shortly thereafter, particularly if they are going to create original content. By referencing it a $10 now, I cut-off any arguments that "well they just raised it so all of your arguments before are wrong!" (despite the fact that a $4 difference is not huge in the grand scheme of things).

I still remember $150 cable bills. Now I can get Hulu Plus (commercial free), Netflix, Amazon Prime, CBS All Access and MLB.TV for less than half of that. I can go crazy and get HBO Go, FOX Play (or whatever its called), and still be paying far less than my old cable bill.

I'd gladly go back to $150 a month if it meant commercial free on-demand streaming all my content.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

I don't think CBS really understands how to treat Trekkies. I know that it's always been about $$$$ but it's also how they respect our feelings about the show. These characters are more than just images on a screen (small and big) for us. For me it's more personal. The show has meant so much to me. It's expanded so far beyond through books and fan's creating their own shows. and of course FANZINES.

I would hope that CBS would wise up. I hope that I can see the new series without paying for their access service. I am still not happy the show is leaving Amazon

Can you show me, how treks feel about the show? Seriously? Is there a poll taken, or a study performed?

There have been what, some 500+ hours of produced Trek, that spans 12 feature films, and 5 series (6 if out count TOS).

Of those 5 Series, production spanned across four different decades (60's, 80's, 90's, and 00's)

There isn't a single feeling fans feel about Star Trek, heck we can't even come to a uniform decision about which series was the best. Some prefer TOS, others, TNG, others Enterprise. Everyone who likes Trek, has different memories of watching trek, with whom they watched Trek with. I enjoyed watching TOS with my grandfather after school, so all of those episodes have dear memories for me.

This is the hubris of Trekfans, especially of the Talifan variety. It's that Trek represents one thing to all fans, when it doesn't. It represents a million things to a million individual fans. And while some trek may exist outside of the tastes of a particular individual fan (for me, I didn't care much for Voyager, and REALLY don't like Enterprise) *IF* there is one spirit of trek, it would be, that its not for me to criticize those who like those series, or call those particular enterprises, not true trek.

I for one, am excited CBS is going to put Star Trek on All Access. Streaming channels, represent a paradigm shift in how we consume entertainment. Subscribers will determine what content is made, not a small segment of a demographic.

 

[fireproof78]

Tell me how exactly they've mistreated Trekkies in this situation.



As much as I love Trek (and I watch it nearly daily)-- I have to say, maybe you need to take a step back if it's that personal to you. It is just a televsion show. One we're all passionate about, but at the end of the day it's a fictional TV/Movie franchise. That's it.



If you're really so passionate about Trek, paying $10 a month shouldn't be too much for you. You already have Amazon, after all, clearly. I have all the Trek DVD's but would happily spend an extra $10 monthly to not have to bother with them-- I can much easily watch any episode I want with the flick of a wrist or press of a button, and with all the Trek I want $10 monthly works out to about .10 cents an episode.

If you want, i'm sure there will be dozens of websites illegally streaming them or torrents you can download illegally from. But frankly, $10 a month for All Access is much simpler and easier (and safer for your computer's health).

I have to agree on a number of points.

The larger one being that CBS doesn't know how to treat fans. Well, they are business so the "fans" are customers, and they want to make sure that what money is due them is actually paid. And this was happening ever since Gene Roddenberry was running the franchise. It isn't all that new.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

True-- but I fairly suspect they will raise it before 2017, or shortly thereafter, particularly if they are going to create original content. By referencing it a $10 now, I cut-off any arguments that "well they just raised it so all of your arguments before are wrong!" (despite the fact that a $4 difference is not huge in the grand scheme of things).

I still remember $150 cable bills. Now I can get Hulu Plus (commercial free), Netflix, Amazon Prime, CBS All Access and MLB.TV for less than half of that. I can go crazy and get HBO Go, FOX Play (or whatever its called), and still be paying far less than my old cable bill.

I'd gladly go back to $150 a month if it meant commercial free on-demand streaming all my content.

I expect they will keep their 6.00 entry fee, and may offer a 10.00 commercial free variety... but, All Access is going to depend more on other original content than just Trek, so I am interested in seeing what they may be.

 

[Albinator]

I have to agree on a number of points.

The larger one being that CBS doesn't know how to treat fans. Well, they are business so the "fans" are customers, and they want to make sure that what money is due them is actually paid. And this was happening ever since Gene Roddenberry was running the franchise. It isn't all that new.

Does anyone know how to treat "fans"? As SSM said above, "fans" covers a wide variety of people and their opinions. Every fanbase is as diverse as the human race. There is no "right way" to treat fans.

They're doing fine. And the fact that we disagree proves me right.

 

[Albinator]

I expect they will keep their 6.00 entry fee, and may offer a 10.00 commercial free variety... but, All Access is going to depend more on other original content than just Trek, so I am interested in seeing what they may be.

I fully expect a digital exclusive JAG series or NCIS or whatever. I fully expect them to engage popular creators to create entirely new shows. Remakes of old shows, spinoffs/TV versions of popular movies, or picking up cancelled shows.

CBS in general doesn't have the best catalog of shows creatively, so maybe this new streaming service will deliver better TV.

 

[fireproof78]

Does anyone know how to treat "fans"? As SSM said above, "fans" covers a wide variety of people and their opinions. Every fanbase is as diverse as the human race. There is no "right way" to treat fans.

They're doing fine. And the fact that we disagree proves me right.

Well, I don't disagree

 

[steam235]

If we're going to talk about CBS all access, we need to remember CBS has 0 reason to make a new Star Trek show. Will it cost less than their extremely cheap shows Big Bang Theory, and 2 Broke Girls, Mike and Molly ect? For being the biggest comedy on TV Big Bang does very little that's not on their standing sets or with out side cast. Will it bring in more than thier hour long Dramas? They can make any random procedural, throw the CSI or NCIS moniker on it and have a hit. All of those have more viewers and cost less than any Star Trek. And Star Trek Merchandise still sells well without a current show on the air.

CBS streaming is the only reason they are making a new Star Trek. I have been paying for CBS all access because with CBS, Hulu, and Netflix I'm still under $30 a month and I can watch on my own schedule.

To me Streaming only doesn't bother me, in fact I like it because it's more how I watch TV. I think it sucks that CBS owned Star Trek and not NBC who has a strong of cable channels they might have been able to put it on but that's how it is.

If it's Streaming New Trek vs No new Trek, I'll take New Trek