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CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

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So? If I saw something on TV that everyone had access to, am I not allowed to talk about it, just because nobody else tuned in to watch? Are you worried about spoilers?

There are a group of people out there that are action oriented. They won't actively seek out information on their own, but will act on information given to them.

For our purposes, I think actively putting addresses into the public discussion is poor judgement.
 
I wasn't working on a story. I was asking questions. I asked a couple, and provided context for those questions. Why is that hard for you to understand?

The questions, were legitimate, but the answers provided were also, within reason. He may have created the corporation with the plan to transfer the property over, and changed his mind, never got to it, or what not.

I think, when it was said, that the home was the home of his Godsons, continuing to press the issue, especially in a public forum, became unnecessary. If you feel that the matter should be investigated, forward the issue to CBS/Paramount's attorneys, and be done with it.

The CBS group is a group of people who basically don't care for Peters. If you were him, would you be comfortable with a group of people you thought hated you, having the personal addresses of loved ones?
 
All this legal mumbo-jumbo... (slaps forehead)

This all should have been handled behind the scenes. The fact it wasn't leads me to believe that AXANAR told them to pack sand. (I know they are stating differently). I'm fairly certain CBS didn't want to have to come off as "suing the fans", especially with STXIII and a new series in the mix.
 
If the info you researched was for an article of Blog you intended to write/release, why first post in on a Facebook group to begin with?]

It wasn't. I wasn't researching information in the role of a reporter, even if I was using tools that I learned in my craft. But they are tools that anyone can use. I was researching as someone interested in what's going on, just like many of you.

If it was just personal research (for whatever reason); was it really necessary to post the actual address publically, etc?

Once again, I didn't post the address publicly. I linked to a corporate records document, which is available to anyone. Simply visit Sunbiz.org, and you can explore every single corporation that exists (and maybe even no longer exists) by a simple Web search.

I never posted the actual address. I did, however, link to public documents, like a corporate record and a property deed (also public record) that posted the address.

I didn't include the address on those records.

Florida does not allow P.O. Boxes for corporate addresses, and so I can understand why you have to put some address. But Florida (like many other states) have private P.O. Box companies that actually provide you with a street address, that conforms to Florida's corporation laws. If Alec Peters was really all that caught up in the private address, why did he use it in a public document, especially when there were other options available to him, like a secondary address through a private P.O. Box company?

So why is that my fault? I have had to research corporate records many times, especially as a real estate reporter. And more times than I would like, a company's address ends up at a private P.O. Box. But hey, if th law allows it, then great.

The fact is, I didn't use that address in public documents.

Yes, the info is out there (Hell, printed and online phone books still exist to this day with personal names and addresses all made public for anyone to see); but IMO it's irresponsible (not illegal) to just put it out there without a VERY good reason (you being a party to the CBS lawsuit would qualify, but I don't think you are);

I'm sorry, but where do we draw the line? This thread is more than 300 pages, mostly of people laughing and having fun, and even discussing different aspects of the case, right down to outright speculation that even made me nervous. But that's OK? But asking questions, and providing publicly available comment is out of bounds?

The sad part about doing anything investigative, whether it's professional or personal, is that it seems to be where some people draw the line, like it's an invasion of privacy — even if the sources used are public, as in this case.

I didn't provide any source that anyone else could easily look for, without really digging. I mean, it took me just a few minutes to find it ... I'm sure it would take someone who is not trained to find things just a short time longer. It's not hidden.
 
On I Stand with CBS, when the Florida question was posted, I tried to explain the who and why of the Florida property to MH nicely. I told him when, why, how, and for whom he bought the house. He told me that did not answer his question. He was an ass even to people "on the same side", Alec had threatened him with a lawyer, and MH said if he had a nickel for everyone that threatened to call a lawyer on him, he'd be rich.

I posted if I had a nickel for every one who threatened to sue me, I wouldn't even have a nickel, and speculated that was because I live my life differently than he does. Then I deleted my comment, because why start something for no reason. I deleted all my comments on his thread, not wanting to be associated. Then I just blocked him. When I got up, no sign of the group. And I knew why.
 
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Jeez. You're being pedantic. Of course it doesn't say it. Of course there's no law against it. But, because you can, should you?

If you just agreed with what I said, then what is your point?

You were working as a reporter.

I wasn't. Showed me where I turned this into a story.

I'm assuming no one is paying you to go around digging up information about this.

No more than someone is paying you to comment on this thread or take part in discussions about this lawsuit (assuming, of course, you are NOT being paid, lol!)

Is this really on the same level as government corruption? Is this something that really needed to be exposed?

I am not saying that there is anything fraudulent in this particular case at all (we simply don't know what's going on there) ... but let me be "pedantic" again. You only believe that government corruption should be exposed? I mean, if someone was out there collecting money for, say, the Fireman's Relief Fund (sorry if that is a real place, meant to be a fictional example), and they were simply pocketing the money ... that wouldn't matter to you, because it's not government corruption?

Maybe you don't care if you lose money or not. But I have dealt with fans, especially Star Trek fans, for nearly two decades. And have helped cover some big things where fans were having money taken away from them in a way that it shouldn't have been.
 
Michael, I respect that you feel you are not in the wrong with posting this information and for the most part, I think you're right. I think marking the connection with the Godsons, CERTAINLY, was over the line. However, as opposed to linking directly to the documents, was any consideration given to taking screenshots of the records and redacting addresses? Were the addresses themselves necessary to the line of questioning?
 
Or do you mean "ask" by the fact that I queried a public database, like you would query Google for something?

Exactly. Anybody could have gotten it if they'd bothered to make the query.

The CBS group is a group of people who basically don't care for Peters. If you were him, would you be comfortable with a group of people you thought hated you, having the personal addresses of loved ones?

Totally agree and understand how he would feel, but again, these were public documents, and he said he didn't even know who was living there. I can certainly understand Peters' feelings, but it was said earlier that it was HE who mentioned who was living there, not the OP (right?). Hell if you had my real name and the state I live in i'm pretty sure you could find out where I live, my parents live, etc with a simple google search.
 
If others used the information to do something wrong or illegal, yes, that isn't on the OP.
But, the OP wasn't working as a journalist--as in, getting paid to follow a story. He was a poster, digging around on his own, for his own motives. He wasn't just perusing. He was posting it.

What is your point? Why do you think a journalist has some special right? I've been a journalist for 20 years, and trust me, we don't get "special rights"? Try being a journalist and getting into a panel discussion at SDCC, even when you've been invited by the network to be there ... you still ain't getting in.

Reporters don't have special powers, or special access that is different from regular people. In fact, the reason why journalism has survived through many ups and downs in our history is because we are just regular people, too. We just learn to ask questions, and aren't afraid of the bullets that fly at us.
 
This whole "where the money went" investigation and digging into Peters' personal business is unnecessary and a little bit creepy.

Peters admitted to paying himself and his wife a salary and using the majority of the funds to renting and setting up studio space which he intends to use for other productions as well. I really don't think he's trying to hide where any of the money went.

But even if he did, it's really irrelevant. As much as Peters is trying to show how not-for-profit his thingy is, that's not the problem. CBS/Paramount are suing him for enjoying a "direct financial benefit" from infringing on the ST IP.

He did gather over $1,2 million on account of Star Trek. Where that money went is totally beside the point, he could have bought 1,2 million tacos with it or completed a film, it doesn't matter, those $1,2 million are a financial benefit and he's going to have a tough time proving he didn't get that by using Star Trek IP, especially since people who gave him that money can't shut up about True Star Trek.
 
The CBS group became an embarrassment and I left it last night after realizing I didn't want to be a part of it anymore. Closing it down is the best thing that could happen. Let the deluded Axanar supporters have their fun for now. It's all going to end soon.

Neil

I left the group AND this topic last week, and I'm only stepping in to offer this one comment. The Facebook group I left because—with all due respect to its moderators—I don't think it was being policed well enough as there were a fair number of over-the-line comments and vituperating which were allowed to stand too long.

As to this topic, I left because there likely won't be any actual news or developments until the 30 days is up, and it's just too many pages-per-day circling the same arguments and theories.

That said, I don't like that a public discourse can be so easily shut down.
 
...

The CBS group is a group of people who basically don't care for Peters. If you were him, would you be comfortable with a group of people you thought hated you, having the personal addresses of loved ones?

I don't know the man. I have no emotional connection to him, positive or negative.

I'm interested in the case. I'm interested in the law and the facts. I hope donors can get recourse if they want it (or if they choose not to seek it, then they are adults and can spend their funds as they wish, of course, as can any of us).

The document had an address on it which was placed there by the site keeping the record, far as I recall. I had no idea it connected with anyone's home (I think I saw the whole thing briefly before signing off last night. I have no idea what the specific address was) - but if that is such an issue, then why not change the address on the document? And perhaps that change is in the works.

If I tell you a corporation is located at 1313 Mockingbird Lane*, how are you to know that's a private residence, or who lives there, or what their relationship is with, well, anyone? Even Googling the address won't tell you much.

Passions have run high. I get it; I do! But let's not attribute motives and feelings if we could, okay? The only people who know such things are the people with those motives and/or emotions.

*Spoiler alert - the Munsters live there.
 
Bingo. Ultimately what's worse: prying into public records or childishly bashing someone with memes, videos and remarks about their girlfriend? Shouldn't the discussion really be civil discourse of what the issues are?

Suddenly agreeing with Mr. Hinman and taking back my earlier comment...

That's where I am lost. There have been potshots taken against not only Alec Peters, but people around him on both the professional and personal level (and hell, I am not completely innocent of that). Yet, the issue that is suddenly an issue is someone simply asking some questions?

Even though Peters' response to me was a bit strong for someone with nothing to hide, I still feel that there is a good chance that this is simply a company he meant to protect property he owned somewhere. Even if there are some coincidences involved (which caught my attention in the first place).

Coincidences like starting this company in the same time period he was raising $1.1 million (and nearly two years after he purchased the property in question). And then the second coincidence, which came after asking the question, is that he was doing the quitclaim deed at the same time I started asking questions about this company ... which was 11 months after the company was formed, and 34 months after he purchased the property.

He could just be disorganized. It's possible. But I kind of expected he would simply say something that he just didn't get around to doing it yet, peppered with some insults.

But instead, he deflected. Maybe he's just too much on the defensive. I don't know. But my questions still stand.
 
The questions, were legitimate, but the answers provided were also, within reason. He may have created the corporation with the plan to transfer the property over, and changed his mind, never got to it, or what not.

I think, when it was said, that the home was the home of his Godsons, continuing to press the issue, especially in a public forum, became unnecessary. If you feel that the matter should be investigated, forward the issue to CBS/Paramount's attorneys, and be done with it.

The CBS group is a group of people who basically don't care for Peters. If you were him, would you be comfortable with a group of people you thought hated you, having the personal addresses of loved ones?

This is actually a very good post. And I can't disagree with it. And trust me, I've been on the receiving end of bullshit many times, including death threats, that have made me uncomfortable.

But here's the thing. I didn't publish the address. He did. It's like blaming the President of the United States for someone committing domestic violence against their wife. I saw a company whose time of creation was something that made me raise an eyebrow. I looked into it, as much as you can with public databases, to check out obvious answers. And when I did a search on the Florida address used in the public document, using public records once again, I found that it was a townhouse that Peters owned.

There was no homestead exemption claimed that I could see, so as far as I could tell, it was an investment property. So there was a chance that this company was intended to protect this property.

But there is no quitclaim on file, which is what would be typical in a case like this. And it's not like the company was just formed. It was formed 11 months ago.

Why I am not satisfied completely with the answers provided is primarily because I am being asked to believe a second coincidence took place. The first coincidence was that the company was formed during the same time period Axanar was raising $1.1 million from fans reportedly using Star Trek IP, which was nearly two years after the property was purchased.

Coincidences happen. But why I still felt there was a need to talk more about this was because Peters then told me that they were in the process of transferring the property now. Another coincidence. The same time I brought up a question about the company. That is 11 months after the company was formed, and 34 months after the property was purchased.

Sure, it could still end up being nothing more than a campfire. But I didn't feel comfortable taking that explanation at face value.

And we'll probably never know. It's just discussion from there. Simple as that. And to be honest, most of the discussion has shifted to "stop invading his privacy" and such, and really away from the fact that there are still some loose ends that, at the very least, deserve some attention.
 
All this legal mumbo-jumbo... (slaps forehead)

This all should have been handled behind the scenes. The fact it wasn't leads me to believe that AXANAR told them to pack sand. (I know they are stating differently). I'm fairly certain CBS didn't want to have to come off as "suing the fans", especially with STXIII and a new series in the mix.

I agree. CBS doesn't have to worry as much about "bad PR" as one might be led to believe by the more zealous Axanerdivillianites (CBS isn't worried about the choices of a few thousand people who will likely watch it anyway so they can complain) but still I doubt they were all that excited about the prospect of chasing after a production house that is two steps up from a glob fly.
 
On I Stand with CBS, when the Florida question was posted, I tried to explain the who and why of the Florida property to MH nicely. He was an ass even to people "on the same side", Alec had threatened him with a lawyer, and MH said if he had a nickel for everyone that threatened to call a lawyer on him, he'd be rich.

You've actually misquoted me. I said if I had a nickel for every person who threatened me with a lawyer, and nothing came of it, I would have enough money to fund my own production of Axanar, complete with the overpriced studios. Seriously, don't ruin my jokes. :)

That's the nature of the business. But that also points out one big thing: People like to threaten legal action to get what they want. Seriously, look at how many blogs and websites cave in to a simple letter from a lawyer, when in many cases, that lawyer has no cause of action. And I understand why some do it ... they don't want to spend money on legal fees, especially against companies or people who have more money than they do.

But trust me, if I get a letter or communication from an attorney, I read what they have to say. Once in a great while, they make a claim that I agree with, and will adjust whatever accordingly. But usually, they are puffing their chest, without much to do it for.

I mean, my favorite example is when some so-called "scandalous" picture of an actor kissing another person of the same sex started to circulate the Web. A lawyer sent letters to each site, and many of them took it down. But someone forwarded that letter to me, asking my opinion of it. I turned it into a story ... broke the so-called "confidential" boilerplate on the letter (since no confidentiality existed since there was no previous agreement of such), and then blew the claims out of the water.

I even called the lawyer for a response. Not only did he not file a lawsuit against me, I don't think anyone ever heard from that lawyer again.

So that's where my, albeit, lighthearted statement came from. So please, I was trying to be a little funny there ... don't misquote it, and take the humor out of it.

I posted if I had a nickel for every one who threatened to sue me, I wouldn't even have a nickel, and speculated that was because I live my life differently than he does.

Yes. I live in the public eye. I ruffled feathers for a living, but that is what reporters are supposed to do. That is why they are specifically protected in the very first amendment in the Constitution. I can tell you what ... every good editor I've ever had said, "If everyone you cover likes you, you're not doing your job."
 
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