CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[muCephi]

I don't see this as being similar at all. The Jedi class people are, after all, not making movies (AFAIK). From what little I know, they're essentially teaching a class on how to choreograph a lightsaber battle. The most I could see LFILM (see what I did there? ) winning is an injunction against/damages for using their logos and terminology. I would be genuinely surprised if they have a prayer of stopping the actual classes.

Then again, I only read that one article, so...

You are right, the case, according to Hollywood Reporter is about trademark related issues (see below).

But there are profit-off-of-IP aspects, even if they aren't apparently a direct target of the trademark lawsuit except perhaps in the 'unfair competition' claim.

According to LightSaberAcademy.com, you must pay them a membership fee to become a certified instructor and to be listed on their instructor directory. I don't know if instructors are permitted to charge fees or if so, whether they are required to pay a cut to the academy. The academy website also has a store selling 'lightsabers' and logo tshirts. When you couple this with the trademark issues and the fact the academy was denied a license, you can see where this is heading. Also, the quote below says the academy filed for what looks like a problematic trademark.

I read in the past they sold lightsabers at the events, now they say it is 'fan run' and 'bring your own'. They organize afterparties. Whether they make money on selling drinks I don't know but its typical for any sponsor company bringing event traffic into a bar to split the take.

Sure, they haven't collected 1.3 million in donations too. But there looks to be some similarities.

HollywoodReporter excerpt, referenced by NYT article:

The owner of the Star Wars franchise is now in California federal court talking about cybersquatting, trademark infringement and unfair competition.

"Defendants regularly use the Lucasfilm Trademarks without authorization in connection with their businesses," states the complaint. "Among other infringing activities, Defendants use a logo that is nearly identical, and confusingly similar, to Lucasfilm’s trademark Jedi Order logo … round in shape, with six wing-like shapes curving upward (three per side), and an eight-pointed star featuring elongated top and bottom points stretched into a vertical line."

Lucasfilm says it has served multiple cease notices, and that Brown has responded by filing a trademark application for "Lightsaber Academy, Inc."​

 

[Ion]

^ There's a whole raft of stuff there we could get into regarding trademark law (can lightsaber be considered a generic term now? I doubt it, but you never know what someone can prove).

Truth is, I'm going to just leave it at that; I've already got one lawsuit to follow, don't need another one.

 

[Sgt_G]

On a tangentially related note (not sure if it's been mentioned yet, there are a lot of posts in this thread now) but the Galactic Empire...er...Disney is going after some aspiring young Jedis. Interestingly, Axanar is briefly mentioned at the bottom of the article as a similar case.

The big difference between Axanar and this case is this case is all about TRADEMARKS, not copyrights, and as mentioned many times up-topic, trademark law is a MUST-DEFEND situation. It doesn't matter whether or not people are making money, if they are using your trademark, you must make them stop. If you don't take legal action every single time an issue comes up, you risk having the court void the trademark.

Lucasfilm says it has served multiple cease notices, and that Brown has responded by filing a trademark application for "Lightsaber Academy, Inc."

The application office should reject this out of hand. The word "lightsaber" is a well-known Lucasfilm's trademark. The only reason for the clerk to look it up it to put the file reference number on the rejection notice.

 

[carlosp]

Forced Silence How Axanar is forcibly refunding critics and quashing dissent on its Kickstarter comment pages. Updated this article with another unasked-for refund sent to dissenter.

 

[ThankYouGeneR]

Kickstarter page comment from Axanar Productions:

axamonitor is run by a cyber stalker

Isn't cyberstalking a criminal offense under various state anti-stalking, slander and harassment laws. A conviction can result in a restraining order, probation, or criminal penalties against the assailant, including jail?

And to call someone a cyberstalker in media such as printed words or images, defamation? Which therefore constitutes libel?

 

[Admiral Cain]

Carlos, go get yourself one of those pro bono lawyers - stat. I hear they are easy to find in California.

 

[RedForman]

Forced Silence How Axanar is forcibly refunding critics and quashing dissent on its Kickstarter comment pages. Updated this article with another unasked-for refund sent to dissenter.

Excellent work as always. This is the kind of stuff that really needs to be more widely disseminated on Facebook and elsewhere (though I doubt it will do much to sway the true believers)

 

[OtherGene]

Carlos, go get yourself one of those pro bono lawyers - stat. I hear they are easy to find in California.

It's a nice idea but I read somewhere that the very best in the business were already taken

 

[jespah]

Yeah, the lightsaber folks (we covered this!) are in violation of trademark. Plaintiffs should wipe the floor with them - there was profit (licenses), benefit (publicity), and willful infringement (they knew about licensure, plus they were served with multiple C & Ds).

As for the Axa investor consortium, they make no sense to me, either, @ThankYouGeneR . Considering that AP is a member or is connected to one, then it's moving the pieces around when it comes to him. But the other(s)?

• The company is being sued and is more or less out of money, and is likely to lose at trial.
• They don't own the real property.
• The fixtures within the building likely would be expensive and a pain in the patoot to relocate and use elsewhere.
• The head of the company is persona non grata to his best-known audience. However, he might not be with BSG, Supergirl, or other potential audiences.
• Information about the company head's prior actions is available publicly online to anyone interested, not only on Axamonitor and G & T, but also in court filings and even in the mainstream press (although many of those news stories have gotten certain details incorrect).

Hence, unless the warehouse/studio/building/whatever has another sublessee lined up already, there really isn't anything positive or profitable for any investors.

Offering the filthy lucre with no consideration is not a contract.

It's a gift.

So, who's giving an early Christmas present? And, more importantly, why?

 

[RedForman]

So, who's giving an early Christmas present? And, more importantly, why?

Some time back, I seem to remember there was some discussion revolving around Mike Bawden having something to do with the investors group - with a plan to produce online 'shorts' or some other sort of advertising? (someone correct me if I'm wrong)

 

[muCephi]

Some time back, I seem to remember there was some discussion revolving around Mike Bawden having something to do with the investors group - with a plan to produce online 'shorts' or some other sort of advertising? (someone correct me if I'm wrong)

Yes, he said this in a TrekZone interview -- that his interest was in these fake ads that masquerade as news/features. Move them to video. Its all the rage, even major newspapers are in on it, producing entire sections that are indicated as advertising by saying it is "produced in cooperation with [our paper] using Storyboard" or the like. Not "this is advertising made to look like another news section". Websites are all over it too of course, look anywhere for "sponsored content" or more subtle identifiers or "you may also like" and watch where the link takes you.

The only way I could see them making the Axanar thing work as a long term investment is if they bought the facility as well as the lease. Or perhaps as a tax writeoff.

So much might get clarified if Terry or someone else turned over emails. Choice bits might turn up in summary judgment filings.

 

[Professor Zoom]

I don't see this as being similar at all. The Jedi class people are, after all, not making movies (AFAIK). From what little I know, they're essentially teaching a class on how to choreograph a lightsaber battle. The most I could see LFILM (see what I did there? ) winning is an injunction against/damages for using their logos and terminology. I would be genuinely surprised if they have a prayer of stopping the actual classes.

Then again, I only read that one article, so...

If they had sold the classes as stage combat classes they would've been left alone. And they wouldn't have made as much money.

It's not the classes themselves, it's the fact they were tradeing on something they didn't have a right to. They made their money BECAUSE it was a light saber class not because they were such great teachers.

And if they were served multiple cease and desists, the entitled owners deserve to be crushed.

 

[Ion]

If they had sold the classes as stage combat classes they would've been left alone. And they wouldn't have made as much money.

It's not the classes themselves, it's the fact they were tradeing on something they didn't have a right to. They made their money BECAUSE it was a light saber class not because they were such great teachers.

And if they were served multiple cease and desists, the entitled owners deserve to be crushed.

I am, surprisingly enough, aware of this. I'm also not commenting on whether or not they're good guys, or whether or not they deserve to be crushed.

I'm saying only that it's a totally different thing than Axanar; unless destroyed financially over the trademarks (a distinct possibility), it's doubtful to me that any judge would order them to stop teaching saber combat. To stop calling it that? Certainly. To stop teaching it?

Yeah, there'd be a lot of pissed off fencing instructors if that happened.

Axanar, on the other hand, doesn't even have THAT hope in hell (or that much legitimacy, depending on the way you look at it).

 

[Earthrise]

I am, surprisingly enough, aware of this. I'm also not commenting on whether or not they're good guys, or whether or not they deserve to be crushed.

I'm saying only that it's a totally different thing than Axanar; unless destroyed financially over the trademarks (a distinct possibility), it's doubtful to me that any judge would order them to stop teaching saber combat. To stop calling it that? Certainly. To stop teaching it?

Yeah, there'd be a lot of pissed off fencing instructors if that happened.

Axanar, on the other hand, doesn't even have THAT hope in hell (or that much legitimacy, depending on the way you look at it).

Well, Peters could still make a movie. He'd just have to scrub anything that could possibly be identified as Star Trek and make it a generic science fiction war movie. Of course, he wouldn't be able to raise nearly the money without the Star Trek brand.

 

[Noname Given]

Forced Silence How Axanar is forcibly refunding critics and quashing dissent on its Kickstarter comment pages. Updated this article with another unasked-for refund sent to dissenter.

Wow - he refunded a $15 pledge. Guess that means one less Sushi roll at the lunchbreak for Alec Peters.

 

[Professor Zoom]

I am, surprisingly enough, aware of this. I'm also not commenting on whether or not they're good guys, or whether or not they deserve to be crushed.

I am. It was a bonus.

I'm saying only that it's a totally different thing than Axanar; unless destroyed financially over the trademarks (a distinct possibility), it's doubtful to me that any judge would order them to stop teaching saber combat. To stop calling it that? Certainly. To stop teaching it?

To stop selling that they are teaching lightsaber combat, of course. But, I even wonder if they would be allowed to teach it. Would they be able to put it into their course materials? I suspect then they would be in trouble of copyright.

They would have to rename, redress it, etc. All but effectively ending the business. And the class.

But, to say it's totally different is disingenuous. Both are groups of people using something that doesn't belong to them for financial gain.

Yeah, there'd be a lot of pissed off fencing instructors if that happened.

Not if they are just teaching fencing. Or any other actual form of combat.

Axanar, on the other hand, doesn't even have THAT hope in hell (or that much legitimacy, depending on the way you look at it).

I just thought of another difference. We don't know if Axanar got a Cease and Desist, these guys (and gals, maybe) got several. And ignored them. What did they think was going to happen?

 

[Ion]

I just thought of another difference. We don't know if Axanar got a Cease and Desist, these guys (and gals, maybe) got several. And ignored them. What did they think was going to happen?

Why are we even arguing about this? I've not researched it. I don't know anything about the players involved (other than Lucasfilm/Disney of course, and YMMV on that one). I don't happen to follow Star Wars fandom.

That case is different from Axanar; it's based in a completely different area of IP law, with a whole different set of concerns (If you want to really twist things: are they even in the same business for which the trademark was issued? That has significant bearing in trademark law IIRC). Is it interesting for Star Wars fans? Sure. It's just not interesting with respect to Axanar.

If it were a copyright case, then it would be interesting, as there could be parallels -- but it isn't, and there aren't.

 

[MikeH92467]

Star Trek fans need no reason to argue. They just argue.

 

[Ion]

Star Trek fans need no reason to argue. They just argue.

No we don't.

 

[muCephi]

Forced Silence How Axanar is forcibly refunding critics and quashing dissent on its Kickstarter comment pages. Updated this article with another unasked-for refund sent to dissenter.

Unfortunately, as the Kickstarter rep said, they wrote a blanket refund privilege into their TOS:

These are the terms that apply when you’re creating a project:

• You can refund individual pledges if you want. After your project has been funded, you can cancel and refund a backer’s pledge at any time. If you do, you have no further obligation to that specific backer, and no agreement exists between you.

Wouldn't surprise me if the banisheds' factual comments and accurate questions were retroactively deleted from the Axanar site too.

The walled garden probably will be abandoned only when a judge shuts off the upstream water and empties the reservoirs, and the plaintiffs come in and pull out all the IP trees giving the fan-pleasure fruit.