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CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

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RedForman said:
Wordpress is easy, this is probably the limit of his wherewithal :guffaw:
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I think you're being quite generous there (not going soft are you?). I believe it's more likely he'd hire someone to create such a thing and pay them with, well, never you mind how he's paying them....
 
Sushi and patches. They're currency, dammit!

Yesterday's podcast. Blog:
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Semantic Shenanigans starts about 51 minutes in.

And we are recording the first episode of the spinoff show tonight! Ack!! Look for that later this week as I am not the fastest ever sound engineer out there. We're gonna talk about ... stuff! No spoilers!

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ThankYouGeneR said:
I can't find verification of it yet but I 'think' an item of theirs sold at auction can be resold and auctioned endlessly after that. .
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I think you are referring to the first use doctrine where if you buy a book you can sell it later but you don't acquire rights to the IP in the book, characters, reproduction of the story etc. But if things with the logo were sold by Paramount knowing that they would wind up in fan movies that would be different.
 
And another thing, what about conventions. Where is the legality of people dressing up and using those logos etc at conventions, comic cons, etc, Do the promoters pay royalties to Paramount/CBS when the conventions are held?
 
DWolfson said:
I think you are referring to the first use doctrine where if you buy a book you can sell it later but you don't acquire rights to the IP in the book, characters, reproduction of the story etc. But if things with the logo were sold by Paramount knowing that they would wind up in fan movies that would be different.
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It depends whether the IP holder explicitly sells the rights along with the artifact.

For example, at auction you could buy a fine art photograph with or without the IP rights. You could buy a recording of some musicians with the rights, provided the seller has the rights and explicitly transfers them.

I am pretty sure its the same with props/costumes.

I don't think any recent entertainment memorabilia props/costumes have ever been sold with the IP rights.

Given this, one couldn't say that the studio sold a costume "knowing" it would end up in a fan film. What they knew was they didn't transfer any IP rights. If it ended up in a fan film it would be at the discretion of the studio whether they would allow it.
 
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DWolfson said:
And another thing, what about conventions. Where is the legality of people dressing up and using those logos etc at conventions, comic cons, etc, Do the promoters pay royalties to Paramount/CBS when the conventions are held?
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I think in this case the royalties are paid via the license taken by the maker of the fan costumes, like Anovos. The new guidelines steer fan productions towards buying only from licensed costume/prop makers, unless the production wishes to make their own costumes. Fans making their own costumes for noncommercial convention use seems to be just fine. I suppose if it was something that cast the character in a really bad light, they might object, but I haven't heard of such a case.
 
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I think as far as the logo and lets say "warp" drive they might have crossed into the public domain by their use. "Beam me up Scotty" was never actually in the series. Even if the logo hasn't I think it's widespread use would perhaps limit statutory damages for that usage while that defense wouldn't be available for the characters.

The Klingon language is a derivative work.

I'm not saying the Axanar group has a strong case because I think its a bad case and asking for the garbage they are (financial records) is just running up costs. I do understand how the producer and others are taking it personally but some of them are in the wrong while the fans are going to be disappointed.

As far as the other productions are concerned the 15 minute length for those already shot, I don't believe is "fair." Especially taking into account that some of those groups worked with Paramount on not shooting the Norman Spinrad script so the studio definitely had knowledge of these things going on along with the other episodes shot.

I was looking forward at some point to seeing the Bread and Savagery episode and after all this find that the post production ceased.

Not to be too cryptic but there could be another strategy for the fans if there was enough support. Supposedly there are hundreds of millions of US fans which should count for something.
 
muCephi said:
Fans making their own costumes for noncommercial convention use seems to be just fine. I suppose if it was something that cast the character in a really bad light, they might object, but I haven't heard of such a case.
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Since the conventions are profit making enterprises and charge admission I am a little unclear on how it is just fine except for the studio not wanting to go that far after the loyal fans.
 
DWolfson said:
I think as far as the logo and lets say "warp" drive they might have crossed into the public domain by their use. "Beam me up Scotty" was never actually in the series. Even if the logo hasn't I think it's widespread use would perhaps limit statutory damages for that usage while that defense wouldn't be available for the characters.
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The logo is not in the public domain. It's trademarked. I'm not aware of any widespread use except for those by for the license to use it.

What uses are you thinking of that would mean CBS/Paramount would have lost control of the Star Trek logo?
 
DWolfson said:
Since the conventions are profit making enterprises and charge admission I am a little unclear on how it is just fine except for the studio not wanting to go that far after the loyal fans.
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Sorry, I wasn't quite clear. I wasn't expressing a personal opinion. I meant that given the studio behavior, it appears that it is just fine to the studios that fans go to cons in homemade or licensed costumes. I think this like other copyright use is at the discretion of the studio.
 
DWolfson said:
I'm not saying the Axanar group has a strong case because I think its a bad case and asking for the garbage they are (financial records) is just running up costs. I do understand how the producer and others are taking it personally but some of them are in the wrong while the fans are going to be disappointed.
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You won't find many here who disagree.

DWolfson said:
As far as the other productions are concerned the 15 minute length for those already shot, I don't believe is "fair." Especially taking into account that some of those groups worked with Paramount on not shooting the Norman Spinrad script so the studio definitely had knowledge of these things going on along with the other episodes shot.

I was looking forward at some point to seeing the Bread and Savagery episode and after all this find that the post production ceased.
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Again, I suspect a lot of people here would agree that "in the can" work overlapping the guidelines start date would be well served to be released. And it appears that some films are either negotiating it or announcing it and seeing what reaction they get.

DWolfson said:
Not to be too cryptic but there could be another strategy for the fans if there was enough support. Supposedly there are hundreds of millions of US fans which should count for something.
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Well there are, but few of them care about or know about fan films at present. One could make all sorts of alternative proposals, but *some*one very aggressively backed CBS/Paramount into a corner and now the guidelines are published and fresh. It seems pretty unlikely that they could be modified in the short term. Especially by the same people who organized the boycott/'small access' initiative.

If the Axanar attorneys want to subpoena studio documents, they should subpoena emails and cover memos that circulated the "small access" survey in the studios. I bet it would make for entertaining reading.
 
DWolfson said:
Since the conventions are profit making enterprises and charge admission I am a little unclear on how it is just fine except for the studio not wanting to go that far after the loyal fans.
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Usually the convention organizers usually are not hiring the costume-wearers. They do not require people to attend in costume. And they are not advertising costumed fans as an attraction of the event. There is no direct connection between the organization, that runs the event (and profits from it), and the choice clothing the paying attendees make.
 
If someone starts to profit from cosplaying (maybe by signing autographs for a fee), and the profit becomes significant (not sure of the number but a million bucks is probably in there somewhere), then studios will start to take notice. Right now, it's more fan expression than anything else. Studios could technically try to shut all of that down, but they don't because it's not cost-effective to sue a fan with $63 in their savings account, and who drives a used 1981 Datsun.
 
Sean_McCormick said:
Usually the convention organizers usually are not hiring the costume-wearers. They do not require people to attend in costume. And they are not advertising costumed fans as an attraction of the event. There is no direct connection between the organization, that runs the event (and profits from it), and the choice clothing the paying attendees make.
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Well they do usually advertise a costume competition event...
 
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