CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar 2 - Electric Boogaloo-Fanboys gone WILD-too many hyphens

Discussion in 'Fan Productions' started by jespah, May 10, 2018.

?

Do you enjoy pie?

  1. Yes, sweet, please

    67 vote(s)
    42.9%
  2. Yes, savory, please

    35 vote(s)
    22.4%
  3. Yes, any kind

    66 vote(s)
    42.3%
  4. No, I'm a heathen

    30 vote(s)
    19.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. motorhead

    motorhead Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    well according to Memory Alpha:
    "Lazarus was one candidate rumored to possibly be an antagonist in the film Star Trek Into Darkness."
    So a "special" on a "Trek Madman". Someone sue CBS. Idea clearly stolen from Axa.
     
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  2. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What of Carlazarus?
    :guffaw:
    (Sorry, couldn't resist)
     
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  3. Admiral2

    Admiral2 Admiral Admiral

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    Langley
    The one with the dimensions was "The Alternative Factor." The other one with the endless battle was "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield." As far as I'm concerned neither applies in this case.

    This is a wrestling match between Carlos and AP. Victory in a wrestling match comes when the ref counts the pinned guy out or the pinned guy taps himself out. There's no ref here, and AP keeps kicking out and grabbing the ropes. AP has to be driven to the point where he taps three times and goes home. The only way to do that is to get people stop giving him money.

    And yeah, it may be unlikely, but it won't happen at all if Carlos declares victory and packs up. There are still people out there coming to the situation blind. There are plenty of other sources out there that fall squarely on AP's side. That's part of the reason why there are still new donors. As long as that's the case, those of us who want common sense to finally break need to keep updating the message.

    Carlos is good enough to do that on our behalf. I say let him do it as long as he sees the need.
     
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  4. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Admiral Admiral

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    And if Peters never taps out, like a narcissist wouldn’t ever admit wrong doing? Does one keep wrestling forever?
     
  5. Roald

    Roald Captain Captain

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    Zwijndrecht, the Netherlands
    Keep on going, Carlos!! I follow Axamonitor closely, you’re doing an awesome job!
     
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  6. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think at this point Carlos and the other "haters" have to keep going, if they stopped it would give Alec Peters a big victory that really doesn't deserve.
     
  7. SITZKRIEG!

    SITZKRIEG! Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
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    What victory, JD? In the words of countless people posting in this thread, "where is the movie, Alec?". That's the only victory that matters and it'll never happen. The people paying now are knowingly just paying for a parking spot for the sets so there aren't really any innocent backers to protect anymore. If Carlos never mentioned the topic ever again, none of that would change.

    Carlos, do you have another blog or are you updating axamonitor exclusively? I'd be interested in following a general fan film blog as an alternative to FFF... one maybe that dealt not just with promotion but also the more practical side of making fan films.
     
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  8. Potemkin_Prod

    Potemkin_Prod Commodore Commodore

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    Out of Here
    The question I have to ask is what is the desired goal of Axamonitor?

    To get him to make the movie?
    To bankrupt him financially?
    To make him a pariah?
    Is that what you want your lasting legacy to be?

    And at what point can you say "Mission Accomplished"?

    And then what will you do?

    I tired of this nearly a year ago. I don't see the point anymore. I've actually considered asking the board to move this non-ending bashing to TNZ because it's no longer about making a fan film. It's a self-perpetuating cycle of hate. (I keep looking for a space pin-wheel alien in the corners of the room whenever I visit this thread.) And it's alienating those of who actually do produce fan films. Time to move along. Nothing left to see here.
     
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  9. Admiral2

    Admiral2 Admiral Admiral

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    Fine. Forget wrestling. Let's use a military analogy: Hard and Soft Kills. The hard kill is AP giving up. If that doesn't happen, the soft kill's just as good. That's getting people to stop giving him money, no matter what he promises for it. Again, even if that's unlikely, it won't happen at all if Carlos gives up.

    I'd be right there with you if there was any indication that Carlos was actually harming himself just by keeping the blog, but it seems like the real harm is coming from AP trying to make him stop. AP is going for the hard kill. Why should Carlos just give it to him?
     
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  10. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

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    The people who remain in the Peters camp are the true believers, the ones whom loved Prelude, wanted a different kind of Star Trek than they think they've been given, and perhaps many the kind who want to see the little guy win over the big bad corporations. Those people are unlikely to change their minds, and I think most who were willing to go "wait a minute..." did so long ago. Confirmation bias is not unique to them of course, people embrace that which supports their belief and reject information that contradicts it. Once formed opinions are hard to change.

    Of course, from their POV it's the "haters" who are the ones with the confirmation bias, the ones who can't see that Peters is standing up for them, sticking it to The Man, who is fearful of losing their property to the genius of True Fans. To them we seem sycophants of CBS and the system just as some of us think of them as fingers-in-ears deniers who follow a cult of personality.

    Those people are the hardest ones to convince. Those people are the ones no amount of good reporting is likely to convince. They're likely lost, and the more we attack the firmer their persecution complex gets and the deeper in with Peters they get.

    None of which is to say what Carlos is doing is futile.

    The trick, of course, is to warn potential acolytes off before they can form the difficult-to-dislodge connection to Peters' bubble universe. This is where Axamonitor remains vital, as a place to point people and media before they can become inculcated, so their skepticism shields are raised before they can drink the Axanar-branded Kharn Kool Aid.

    The single downside to this is that people like Carlos become convenient scapegoats, enemies to be resisted, ridiculed and vilified.

    Think about that that next time you type LFIM or call Lane "Slow Lane". You're not arguing their arguments, you're doing the kind of thing this board's rules wisely don't allow, you're attacking the poster not the post. That plays into the Us v. Them narrative that neither side can win.

    So, I think the real questions here are not "When is enough Axamonitor?" but "Is there a way to make sure newcomers go to it first?" followed by "What actions or arguments might actually errode confidence amongst the believers?" Attacking them and him has demonstrably failed, so, what next?

    I have some thoughts on these questions but I'll hold back on those until I hear some of your opinions.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
  11. FormerLurker

    FormerLurker Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
    Whatever happens, AP may end up just dying. He's completely grey, he looks tired, and he's losing muscle tone (where it's visible). The stress may well kill him.

    Then again, it may be his own fault. If he's so desperate to get people to send him money, he may not be sleeping well, either. And that's never a good thing.
     
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  12. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Admiral Premium Member

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    I would never wish death on anyone. Even a 5-star fuckwit like AP, but yeah, he looks like he’s definitely conning himself into an early grave.
     
  13. Admiral2

    Admiral2 Admiral Admiral

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    I've mentioned this before. Alec Peters keeps making a promise to tell a story. The promise keeps drawing in support. I think what might ultimately shut him down is for somebody else to tell the story without him. Give him nothing to offer, and he can beg for rent money all he likes, nobody would give him money on the promise of providing something someone else has already given them. The problem is he has so thoroughly tied the concept of Axanar to himself and the associated scandal that more talented and smarter fan creators won't go near it. As long as that's the case, all you have is the truth of the scandal to work with. That's the thing. Only stealing his thunder will shake his hold on his followers for good. Otherwise, you just have to keep on message in the hope new acolytes won't be created.
     
  14. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
    The victory that Peters would try to claim is that they finally shut up Carlos and stopped one of their biggest haters. I could see all the Axanar supporters going on and on and on about how great it was that Carlos was no longer involved, and how that proves all the haters are wrong.
     
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  15. urbandefault

    urbandefault Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sickbay, dammit.
    If AxaMonitor (and we, as a group) ignore AP he will continue to revise history and place blame on others for his misdeeds until his reputation is washed clean. The light of truth must continue to shine on the cockroach that is Alec Peters. If potential new donors question AP's motives and keep their money, Carlos is vindicated.

    AP has a long history of taking other people's money and failing to deliver. He's a textbook grifter, in my opinion.

    Personally, I mock him because I think he's earned it. And it's funny. :techman:
     
  16. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Admiral Admiral

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    But, does't Peters think he's scoring a big victory anyway, over the "haters"?

    Jesus christ. Now we're talking metaphorical killing? Anyway.
    What do you think STILL needs to happen for people to give up on Peters? And I mean everyone. If if hasn't happen yet with all of the tremendous work that Carlos has done, as well as others, do you honestly think it will happen? Or is this whole thing now a self perpetuating machine?

    Unless Peters is ACTUALLY killing Carlos, what does a 'hard kill' mean? A known con-man and thief is calling him a 'hater' a 'liar.' Tell me what the 'hard kill' means in this circumstance. Because it's not like Peters's opinion means anything, and for those that it does, I think they are fools too.

    Why should anyone give a shit about the opinion of fools? That's all ego talking. (And I'm not saying that as a pejorative aimed at Carlos. Outside of this thread, I don't know him, and I admire the work he's doing. I'm just asking the question: to what end?)

    To be honest, I thought the internet was forever.

    He is. And that's never going to change. I don't know, I feel like Carlos has actually won the argument, and Peters isn't going to ever admit that, so... does one keep arguing with someone who is incapable of admitting wrong doing?
     
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  17. urbandefault

    urbandefault Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The point is to tell the truth.

    "Just the facts, ma'am."

    As long as AP keeps lying and trying to revise history, someone has to report the facts.

    That's the mission, and Carlos is doing a great job.
     
  18. urbandefault

    urbandefault Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm seeing the spark of a trend here to make AxaMonitor the bad guy in this thing and I don't like it.

    Alec Peters has fleeced thousands of people out of well over a million dollars and he shows no signs of slowing down. His history of bad business dealings is public record.

    Making AxaMonitor the bad guy is ridiculous.

    Make no mistake, I will ridicule the ridiculous. :techman:
     
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  19. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Admiral Admiral

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    Who is making the AxaMonitor the bad guy here? I'm asking honestly, because if it's being directed my way, I don't think I am, and I find it a little insulting if that's what's being insinuated.
     
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  20. urbandefault

    urbandefault Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not pointing fingers, just an observation. Chill, dude.
     
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