Cause and Effect

[darkshadow0001]

I watched this episode for the first time in ages, and remembered how great an episode it was/is! There's just something I don't get about The Boseman and Kelsey Grammer (I don't remember his character's name ) The crew of the Boseman were wearing TWOK outfits but Grammer states to Picard it is the year 2278. Now in the time of TMP, was that around the same year or before? I was just determining if they had the right suits on or not. Not to much of a big issue, but just out of sheer boredom

I also noticed something else about TNG. It seems to be the only Trek show geared at everyone getting along-- at least Starfleet officers. I think the other shows attempt it, but doesn't come close to it.

 

[Squiggy]

TMP took place somewhere between 2272 and 2277.

The Bozeman's uniforms would be the earliest chronological appearance of TWOK tunics.

 

[hmbnimbus]

It's one of my favourite episodes of anything, not just sci-fi.

It's possible the crew in TMP were merely trialling a new uniform that wasn't taken up by Starfleet or that it was unique to the Enterprise refit.

 

[darkshadow0001]

TMP took place somewhere between 2272 and 2277.

The Bozeman's uniforms would be the earliest chronological appearance of TWOK tunics.

Ok, that's what I figured. So the uniforms weren't really that out of place then. I also thought The Bozeman looked more militarious then it should have, but overall it was a nice remembrance from the 23rd Century.

 

[John Picard]

TMP took place somewhere between 2272 and 2277.

The Bozeman's uniforms would be the earliest chronological appearance of TWOK tunics.

Ok, that's what I figured. So the uniforms weren't really that out of place then. I also thought The Bozeman looked more militaristic than it should have, but overall it was a nice remembrance from the 23rd Century.

Read the book Ship of the Line, which covers some of the back story of Bateson and the crew of the Bozeman's mission, which was basically a "police cruiser" in unbridled territory.

 

[Jadzia]

Here's some trek uniforms with dates. I don't know if this helps?

 

[Squiggy]

TMP took place somewhere between 2272 and 2277.

The Bozeman's uniforms would be the earliest chronological appearance of TWOK tunics.

Ok, that's what I figured. So the uniforms weren't really that out of place then. I also thought The Bozeman looked more militarious then it should have, but overall it was a nice remembrance from the 23rd Century.

Infact, I think the line from Cause... codified and canonized the earliest date the TWOK uniforms appeared therefore shrinking the window TMP would've taken place.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Watched it today. Good, but not great episode.

 

[darkshadow0001]

Watched it today. Good, but not great episode.

Well, I liked it, anyway

 

[Timo]

Read the book Ship of the Line, which covers some of the back story of Bateson and the crew of the Bozeman's mission, which was basically a "police cruiser" in unbridled territory.

Alternately, skip that gadawful book, and invent your own mission for the Bozeman...

I don't know where people get the "militaristic" thing as regards this ship. Sure, there are what look like tapering gunbarrels on her. But no Star Trek starship weapon really looks like a tapering gunbarrel, and certainly no Starfleet starship weapon features anything akin to a barrel at all.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Rhaenys]

I really like this episode. It has a very interesting story. Only that scene in Beverly's quarters is a little bit boring. And I love all poker scenes in that episode.
One of the best episodes in that season, maybe even the best.

 

[Michael]

One of the boldest, most innovative and best episodes in all of Trek.

And it had Kelsey Grammer in it!

 

[22 Stars]

Wow, never realized the timeline puts it so close to TMP. It would have been fun to have them in TMP uniforms. Come to think of it, with all the time-hopping have we ever seen the TMP uniforms outside of TMP (excluding some minor re-uses in TWOK and TFF)?

 

[SeanMcC]

I loved the episode, but I wish Grammer had a bigger part in it. Perhaps sacrificing a couple of the time loops to show how Bateson and his crew would have coped with losing 90 years.

And also, to be honest, the crew of the Bozeman must have been pretty dumb to have not noticed that they were repeating the same few days for ninety years! Even without Data, the Enterprise crew knew something was wrong within a few weeks (Not that they could have done anything about it without Data).

TMP was set in 2272-2273. And no, there was no other appearance of those uniforms, outside the minor reuses. Just as well, as I hated those uniforms.

Funnily enough, the TWoK uniforms lasted for eighty years!

 

[Michael]

And also, to be honest, the crew of the Bozeman must have been pretty dumb to have not noticed that they were repeating the same few days for ninety years!

To be fair, we don't know after how much time everything was repeated for the crew of the Bozeman, do we? I mean, what if after every 5 minutes the time would loop back for them? There wouldn't be much time to notice anything.

Funnily enough, the TWoK uniforms lasted for eighty years!

Do we know how long the TMP uniforms lasted?

 

[John Picard]

Read the book Ship of the Line, which covers some of the back story of Bateson and the crew of the Bozeman's mission, which was basically a "police cruiser" in unbridled territory.

Alternately, skip that gadawful book, and invent your own mission for the Bozeman...

I don't know where people get the "militaristic" thing as regards this ship. Sure, there are what look like tapering gunbarrels on her. But no Star Trek starship weapon really looks like a tapering gunbarrel, and certainly no Starfleet starship weapon features anything akin to a barrel at all.

Timo Saloniemi

Must have been, because TPTB made the Bozeman look like that for the episode. And like I stated, read the book. The Bozeman was built for the rough and tumble area of the galaxy where she was pretty much on her own and had to patrol.

 

[SeanMcC]

And also, to be honest, the crew of the Bozeman must have been pretty dumb to have not noticed that they were repeating the same few days for ninety years!

To be fair, we don't know after how much time everything was repeated for the crew of the Bozeman, do we? I mean, what if after every 5 minutes the time would loop back for them? There wouldn't be much time to notice anything.

Good point.

But you could argue that if the time loop was five minutes, the crew may have noticed even quicker. Plus there was that noise in Beverly's quarters; did that happen on the Bozeman too? Did the Bozeman's crew have déjà vu as well? However, you are right, we don't know how long their time loop was.

Shit, it'd take another episode to answer those. Two parter, anyone?

Funnily enough, the TWoK uniforms lasted for eighty years!

Do we know how long the TMP uniforms lasted?

Less a tenth of the time the TWoK uniforms lasted, it seems. Approx 2270-2277.

 

[Timo]

And also, to be honest, the crew of the Bozeman must have been pretty dumb to have not noticed that they were repeating the same few days for ninety years! Even without Data, the Enterprise crew knew something was wrong within a few weeks (Not that they could have done anything about it without Data).

We don't have any evidence that the Bozeman would have experienced even a single time loop. The "temporal mechanics" of the episode certainly don't require it.

For two starships to collide again and again, it would suffice for one of them to be stuck in a time loop. The other would merely disappear in the 2270s, emerge in the 2360s, and either be destroyed or hailed by a bald captain, depending on what was happening at the other end.

Must have been, because TPTB made the Bozeman look like that for the episode.

Look like what? Militaristic? No sign of that IMHO.

And like I stated, read the book. The Bozeman was built for the rough and tumble area of the galaxy where she was pretty much on her own and had to patrol.

The book was written by an idiot who got everything wrong, starting with the silly notion that the ship would have an all-male bridge crew, proceeding through the ship having "police flashers" for waving down ships she wanted to inspect, and culminating in the embarrassing fact that the book was supposed to take place in a period of Trek pseudohistory that never existed (check where Worf should really be during the Federation-Klingon war!).

The people who cobbled together the modification of the original Reliant model, Greg Jein and Mike Okuda, suggest that the add-ons are fancy sensors. The people who actually decide - the audience - can make their own judgement. I just can't readily see why they would think "militaristic".

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Michael]

I just can't readily see why they would think "militaristic".

I can't see it either.

 

[Unicron]

* shrugs * I have no problem with the Soyuz being a "militaristic" vessel. We've seen the occasional weapon with an actual barrel (Klingons BOPs and the Negh'Var, at least if the common profiles and blueprints are accurate) and the only other alternative suggestion is that they're oversized sensors. In which case they'd be unlike other sensors arrays seen.