Case dismissed! Discovery and Tardigrade game "not similar"

[Disco!Disco!]

We are way over the point were an objective investigation would be necessary.

Really? Because of...?

Using a tardigrade for travel isn't a copyrightable idea. Neither are interracial gay couples, black women, or redheads.

https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/201...e-star-trek-discovery-plagiarism-allegations/

Imagine if someone could copyright fictional ship engines that fold space.

 

[Noname Given]

No.
The only thing he can do is collect exhibits and evidence so that a court starts looking into the case. He cannot subpoena documents from CBS on his own. He is a private citizen. Demanding of him that he is able to produce information only the State is legally allowed to acquire is beyond laughable.

He has done that. There is literally nothing else he can legally do other than using a massive data-breach at CBS to collect personal information of all CBS' employees and match their entire Internet usage over the past few years with every view his videos or STEAM page got. That's simply impossible.

We are way over the point were an objective investigation would be necessary. Doesn't even have to be a big one - really, granting a single subpoena would already be enough.

The scandal is not that someone is obviously at fault or not. Only an investigation could determine that. The scandal is that the whole thing is not even looked at in the first place, but completely sweeped under the rug.

He should not be able to subpoena documents from CBS UNTIL HE CAN PROVE (with evidence he has found) that someone from CBS LOOKED AT HIS WORK. he hasn't been able to do even that much. You can't just walk into a court and expect it to help you fish for evidence BASED ON A BELIEF YOU CANNOT SUPPORT WITH EVIDENCE. His belief is NOT evidence.

Exactly what evidence has he provided the Judge to date? Basically that it's his belief that because his stuff was on the internet, SOMEONE from CBS must have seen it and used it for Star trek Discovery. He has no e-mails/posts/logs or anything that proves someone from CBS saw his stuff, just his belief.

there's nothing so unique about his documents that you couldn't brush off as coincidence.

- Tartigrades in space? There's been been public articles about that since 2007. YEARS before he came up with the idea for his game; and a full decade prior to ST: D.)

- Similar (Blue) uniforms? Hahahahaha! He should expect a countersuit claiming he stole the look for his game from 'Star Trek: Enterprise' which first aired in 2001.)

- A black woman with afro hair. <--- Seriously?

I could go on, but yes, he NEEDS MORE ACTUAL EVIDENCE for the Judge to proceed as again, there's nothing soooo unique in relation to his game idea that no one else could think of it on their own. So, yes, the legal system requires he submit some hard evidence to back up his claim before she will allow his lawyer to see private corporate documents. He has yet to prove anyone affiliated with CBS or the production companies involved with ST: D even knew about or used any elements of his proposed game design in the creation of the show.

You seem to want a system that "Somebody make s a claim...the court should automatically an an investigation...

Okay. I claim you owe me $1000.00 for a loan I gave you. You respond with: "You never too a loan from me..."

I go to court, file a suit. I demand that I need to investigate your financial records and any and all e-mail correspondence from said date because I think evidence showing you took the loan is there. Further you're going to provide me access to all that documentation and if you don't I'll claim you're ducking out of Discovery...
^^^
This is how your statements come across as to how you believe out civil legal system should work. If you can't see what's wrong with that and why some form of tangible evidence is required by a court from a Plaintiff before a Judge will grant a subpoena or allow Discovery for a case, I don't know what to say.

 

[Tuskin38]

The original idea for the Tardigrade was for it to be an officer on the ship, but they realized it would have been to expensive to do.

I assume it would have been the pilot instead of Stamets in that outline. If the spore drive had even existed then.

 

[Rahul]

Okay. I claim you owe me $1000.00 for a loan I gave you. You respond with: "You never too a loan from me..."

I go to court, file a suit. I demand that I need to investigate your financial records and any and all e-mail correspondence from said date because I think evidence showing you took the loan is there. Further you're going to provide me access to all that documentation and if you don't I'll claim you're ducking out of Discovery...
^^^
This is how your statements come across as to how you believe out civil legal system should work. If you can't see what's wrong with that and why some form of tangible evidence is required by a court from a Plaintiff before a Judge will grant a subpoena or allow Discovery for a case, I don't know what to say.

In your hypothetical case, this would be more akin to - you transfer $1000.00 from your bank account to mine as a loan. After a while you want me to pay it back. But then I say I never took a loan from you, but also go to the local bank, and make sure you aren't allowed to legally print out your bank statement of said month.

This isn't some random fishing tour. This can pretty immediately be solved with a single document that should be easy to produce. That I fight so hard so you're not legally allowed to even see that document is what would be concerning.

Also - this is not "a Tardigrade in space". This is a blue-sparkling, 3 m enlarged Tardigrade that is the means for an instantaneous FTL jump for humans. Don't tell me there is "nothing unique" about that.

 

[Lance]

The original idea for the Tardigrade was for it to be an officer on the ship, but they realized it would have been to expensive to do.

I assume it would have been the pilot instead of Stamets in that outline. If the spore drive had even existed then.

This original idea actually sounds better than what we've got IMHO. Something akin to the Traveller from Star Trek: The Next Generation, but as a regular character.

 

[Disco!Disco!]

Also - this is not "a Tardigrade in space". This is a blue-sparkling, 3 m enlarged Tardigrade that is the means for an instantaneous FTL jump for humans. Don't tell me there is "nothing unique" about that.

You can't copyright ideas. Like the article I linked to upthread said, anyone can write about a bunch of kids who go to wizard school and use wands.

https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-protect.html

Copyright, a form of intellectual property law, protects original works of authorship including literary, dramatic, musical, and artistic works, such as poetry, novels, movies, songs, computer software, and architecture. Copyright does not protect facts, ideas, systems, or methods of operation, although it may protect the way these things are expressed.

https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ01.pdf

Copyright does not protect
• Ideas, procedures, methods, systems, processes, concepts, principles, or discoveries
• Works that are not fixed in a tangible form (such as a choreographic work that has not been
notated or recorded or an improvisational speech that has not been written down)
• Titles, names, short phrases, and slogans
• Familiar symbols or designs
• Mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or coloring
• Mere listings of ingredients or contents
For more information, see Works Not Protected by Copyright (Circular 33).

 

[Rahul]

You can't copyright ideas. Like the article I linked to upthread said, anyone can write about a bunch of kids who go to wizard school and use wands.

https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-protect.html

Copyright, a form of intellectual property law, protects original works of authorship including literary, dramatic, musical, and artistic works, such as poetry, novels, movies, songs, computer software, and architecture. Copyright does not protect facts, ideas, systems, or methods of operation, although it may protect the way these things are expressed.

https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ01.pdf

I'm pretty sure a videogame - or even only a trailer for a videogame - is the expression of an idea.

Like, if I made a life-action adaption of "The Lion King" under my own name - I can't just dismiss any copyright isues only because the "idea" of an anthropomorphic lion can't be copyrighted...

 

[Noname Given]

In your hypothetical case, this would be more akin to - you transfer $1000.00 from your bank account to mine as a loan. After a while you want me to pay it back. But then I say I never took a loan from you, but also go to the local bank, and make sure you aren't allowed to legally print out your bank statement of said month.

This isn't some random fishing tour. This can pretty immediately be solved with a single document that should be easy to produce. That I fight so hard so you're not legally allowed to even see that document is what would be concerning.

Also - this is not "a Tardigrade in space". This is a blue-sparkling, 3 m enlarged Tardigrade that is the means for an instantaneous FTL jump for humans. Don't tell me there is "nothing unique" about that.

In my hypothetical, why are you assuming I even gave you a loan (and I could have done it in cash too) - or I could be lying, etc.
^^^
That's my point. Just because I make a claim, it doesn't mean that claim is true. The claim (without any evidence) is just my word.

Also, a Defendant saying:

"Show me some proof that what you say is true..."

Isn't fighting hard in court. CBS response is: "No, we didn't steal anything. Please show some actual proof that we did..."

And again, a claim ISN'T proof.

 

[Disco!Disco!]

I'm pretty sure a videogame - or even only a trailer for a videogame - is the expression of an idea.

Like, if I made a life-action adaption of "The Lion King" under my own name - I can't just dismiss any copyright isues only because the "idea" of an anthropomorphic lion can't be copyrighted...

Did you read the article? What you describe isn't remotely the same thing.

I'll post it again: https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/201...e-star-trek-discovery-plagiarism-allegations/

 

[Ovation]

In your hypothetical case, this would be more akin to - you transfer $1000.00 from your bank account to mine as a loan. After a while you want me to pay it back. But then I say I never took a loan from you, but also go to the local bank, and make sure you aren't allowed to legally print out your bank statement of said month.

This isn't some random fishing tour. This can pretty immediately be solved with a single document that should be easy to produce. That I fight so hard so you're not legally allowed to even see that document is what would be concerning.

Also - this is not "a Tardigrade in space". This is a blue-sparkling, 3 m enlarged Tardigrade that is the means for an instantaneous FTL jump for humans. Don't tell me there is "nothing unique" about that.

You are describing a theoretical legal system rather than the one that actually exists.

No just legal system would indulge an unsubstantiated belief as sufficient to trigger an obligation on the part of the ACCUSED to voluntarily participate in helping the accuser make its case.

I would probably spend most of my free time actively protesting such a system if ever I had the tragic misfortune of living in a society where such an ethically challenged legal system was in place.

 

[Rahul]

Did you read the article? What you describe isn't remotely the same thing.

I'll post it again: https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/201...e-star-trek-discovery-plagiarism-allegations/

I'm not necessarily saying this article is wrong - but it's a just an amatuer opinion piece not more or less valid than any other post in this thread here:

"I am not a lawyer. I am just a legally-minded Webmaster/Writer"

Yeah...

You are describing a theoretical legal system rather than the one that actually exists.

No just legal system would indulge an unsubstantiated belief as sufficient to trigger an obligation on the part of the ACCUSED to voluntarily participate in helping the accuser make its case.

I would probably spend most of my free time actively protesting such a system if ever I had the tragic misfortune of living in a society where such an ethically challenged legal system was in place.

Well, thank god you're living in the current one where your corporate overlords decide weather or not a claim is unsubstantiated or not.

 

[Disco!Disco!]

I'm not necessarily saying this article is wrong - but it's a just an amatuer opinion piece not more or less valid than any other post in this thread here:

The article points out something fundamental: the ideas in Abin's trailer and Greenlight posts can't be copyrighted.

If I had to guess...most decent lawyers wouldn't take Abdin's case, so instead he has lawyers who make weird mistakes in their filings. <--Disclaimer because I know how weirdly litigious people get: this is my opinion, k?

 

[gblews]

^^^
What? lawyers can usually tell how a case is going based on how a Judge is doing all the preliminary rulings. If you have legal staff on retainer and are sued; it's always good to see just what the other side has before just jumping the gun and settling out of the gate. Again in the real world A LOT of stuff happens before an actual trial.

Lets use the Abdin case as an example here. Lets assume the judge rules against CBS and allows the case to go forward. If the case is not settled it's final destination is jury trial. At that point CBS is at the mercy of a very unpredictable jury. Lets say that discovery does nothing to change the strength of Abdin's case. It is still as weak then as it looks now and CBS continues to look completely innocent.

If the case is allowed in front of a jury and there is a plaintiff verdict, then you are looking at a case that never actually went bad, but definitely should have been settled.

 

[Ovation]

Well, thank god you're living in the current one where your corporate overlords decide weather or not a claim is unsubstantiated or not.

You mean one where if I were to be accused of wrongdoing in the absence of facts and evidence I would not be obliged to help my accuser make his case for him? Damn right. Again, if you were the defendant, you’d be (justifiably) screaming about the injustice of a system that works the way your fantasy legal system would. But if you have such rights under the system, justice demands every defendant has such rights—even scummy rich ones who many would like to see taken down a peg or twelve. It’s called due process and it includes a presumption of innocence that the accuser, not the accused, must work at to refute.

Zero sympathy for the accused does not render such rights null and void.

 

[serabine]

I'm pretty sure a videogame - or even only a trailer for a videogame - is the expression of an idea.

Like, if I made a life-action adaption of "The Lion King" under my own name - I can't just dismiss any copyright isues only because the "idea" of an anthropomorphic lion can't be copyrighted...

A trailer sure is an expression of his ideas. And if Discovery ever uses bright blue tardigrades that envelope (naked) people to zoom away into space with them, Abdin will surely have a case. Until then he needn't hold his breath.

Abdin's whole lawsuit/plagiarism claim has always seemed silly to me, because the only thing that I could take seriously of all that he claimed was "stolen" from him (huge tardigrades linked to ftl travel) lacks what I can only describe as inevitability. There is no point at which the only possible explanation for Discovery's tardigrade Ripper is that someone must have seen Abdin's obscure game. Sorry, his obscure devblog for a game that doesn't exist. In fact I have no trouble seeing dozens of ways Zeitgeist, similar interests/sources, and similar genres can lead two people to come up with similar ideas independently. Which is, coincidentally, why ideas aren't actually copyright protectable. They are cheap at a dime a dozen.

(Also, funny you bring up Lion King and ideas about anthropomorphic lions, since to this day a lot of people are convinced that Disney copied/cribbed from Kimba the White Lion. But that, too, might just have been a coincidence where people wanting to make stories about anthropomorphic lions in Africa simply come up with similar ideas and visuals because there might be certain ... grooves you naturally fall into in storytelling when you have the same setting and type of protagonist.)

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Well, thank god you're living in the current one where your corporate overlords decide weather or not a claim is unsubstantiated or not.

Except the 'Corporate overlords' are not deciding anything. You do know what due process is right? As others have said, Abdin saying 'They stole my idea' is not enough. He has to be able to back up that claim with evidence that he can provide. It's the whole basis for our legal system. The Legal system you seem to want where people can make blind accusations with no evidence and force people or corporations to defend themselves sounds pretty authoritarian to me.

You should be thankful we don't live in a system were someone can say 'Rahul sexually assaulted me, i have no evidence, and I've only spoken to him on the internet but by gum he did it' and force you to defend yourself for no damn reason in a court of law. And before you say it's not the same, I'm aware of that, I'm just providing an example that could happen in the system of law you seem to be advocating for.

Why are you so intent on dying on this hill?

 

[DaveyNY]

Because he's already made up his mind that somebody at CBS working on DISCOVERY is guilty.

There's no argument that can be made to convince somebody who has already steadfastly made up their mind, that they are incorrect in their assumptions.

It's also telling that he has pretty much ignored my rebuttal posts to his complaints about the system being unfair, with the facts as known.

It's always easier to complain about something by using hypothetical's, than having to deal with substantiated facts.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Also - this is not "a Tardigrade in space". This is a blue-sparkling, 3 m enlarged Tardigrade that is the means for an instantaneous FTL jump for humans. Don't tell me there is "nothing unique" about that.

No it isn't. Seriously, would you stop blatantly misrepresenting the actual basic facts of the case just to obsessively make these things sound more similar than they are?

*Only one* of these tardigrades is blue. The other is black. One of these tardigrades is clearly larger than the other by a significant margin. One of these tardigrades is soft and squishy while the other is sharp and dangerous and clearly partly inspired by horror creature design. One of these tardigrades is functionally a transporter, which is not the same thing as an 'ftl jump for humans', and the other is functionally a navigator, which is both different and also not the same thing as an ftl jump for humans. Not to mention one of these things is the central concept of its story, while the other was only a means to an end and was *completely gone* from the story after like 3 episodes.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

One of these tardigrades is soft and squishy

You're talking about ripper here, right?

I like to think he killed Landry with too much love, because the phaser blasts tickled him.

 

[cultcross]

If somebody broke into my house, stole a statue, and the next day my neighbour had the exact same statue in his house - the Police wouldn't ask me to prove how my neighbour could have accessed my property and demand I present the crowbar he used myself! They would take a fucking look at the statue, see if it has the same marks, and if so, ask the guy to produce a receipt from where he got it.

Your analogy works against your point. "If someone broke into my house", well there is the analogy to proof of access right there. No proof of trespass, no burglary. You would have to demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt that a break-in and theft had occurred and that your neighbour was guilty of it. Once again, it's burden of proof on the accuser. Otherwise you have a neighbour who may have bought the same statue. It's up to the accuser to prove he stole it.

In this case, the accuser isn't offering any evidence anyone even saw his house, let alone broke in.