Cargo bay door threat, Picard style

[Captain McBain]

In "Power Play," Picard threatens to open the cargo bay door, which would blow the Power Play aliens into space, including those which inhabited the bodies of Data, Troi, and O'Brien.

My question is, if instead of Power Play aliens, a more powerful alien were there, say, the Douwd, would he be blown into space, or could he withstand it (without hanging on to anything).

I imagine a Q would be unaffected. But what about the Douwd? Or a Calamarain or Zalkonian (after change to the non-corporeal)?

 

[Finn]

Weren't the latter two seen in space?...

 

[Captain McBain]

Yes, you're right. I didn't know if a sudden change of pressure would affect them, though.

 

[Timo]

The thing is, a creature taking the physical form of a human(oid) would have trouble hanging on to anything in the gale-force winds we see when a bay door indeed is opened in "Disaster". So this tactical maneuver might achieve something, after all: the creature would be blown into space, perhaps outside the shield perimeter, at which point Picard could slam on the shields and hopefully defend the ship against the creature that way.

Then again, the other thing is, such gale-force winds are not very realistic. If a big room like that suddenly loses one entire wall to vacuum, the air gets out in a rush, yes - but it's quickly gone, probably faster than it would take to shake a human standing in the middle. And the closer the person stands to the back wall, the less effect there will be. Unless, of course, our heroes in "Disaster" forgot to shut down and lock up the ventilation, and it wasn't just the cargo bay emptying, it was the entire ship... (Sort of defeats the stated purpose of depriving a threatening "plasma fire" of oxygen!)

A pressure change or a phaser blast or a hail of bullets through the body or a lightning bolt might all affect a godlike supercreature if it were taking the form of a humanoid and was somehow dependent on this form staying intact. At the very least, there would be some disorienting surprise. But I'd still expect a creature capable of "becoming human" to also be capable of "becoming itself" again, even if said human were reduced to a cloud of torn flesh and boiled and frozen blood by an extreme pressure change. (And in order to be that extreme, the depressurization would have to begin from something like a hundred atmospheres, not one!)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Captain McBain]

A pressure change or a phaser blast or a hail of bullets through the body or a lightning bolt might all affect a godlike supercreature if it were taking the form of a humanoid and was somehow dependent on this form staying intact. At the very least, there would be some disorienting surprise. But I'd still expect a creature capable of "becoming human" to also be capable of "becoming itself" again, even if said human were reduced to a cloud of torn flesh and boiled and frozen blood by an extreme pressure change. (And in order to be that extreme, the depressurization would have to begin from something like a hundred atmospheres, not one!)

Timo Saloniemi

But you're treating the bodies that the Douwd and other energy beings use as real, and not convenient illusions. For example, a hologram looks very much real, but its 'body' is merely photons held together by forcefields. Bullets, phasers, and deep space don't affect holograms in the slightest. A phaser would only affect one if the intensity of the blast was high enough to weaken or destroy the forcefields, and who knows if phasers can be fired at such strength.

So, if the Douwds', Zalkonians', etc., bodies are illusions, then they are really just energy projections. In that case, only an extremely powerful energy blast could damage one of those beings, I'd imagine (or a black hole, or a superior lifeform, etc.).

 

[Timo]

So, if the Douwds', Zalkonians', etc., bodies are illusions, then they are really just energy projections.

Why not flesh projections? That would probably be easier, as a greater percentage of the illusion could be "passively" maintained.

The impact on the "creature an sich" would indeed depend on the nature of the projection. But "meat puppets" are a plausible manifestation of an omnipotent being, and a possible vulnerability.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Captain McBain]

Why would a being as powerful as the Douwd lower himself to using flesh for a covering? Flesh has inherent weaknesses, as you mentioned. Can you imagine a Douwd recoiling in pain because Worf stabbed him? It just doesn't fit.

The Douwd mentioned to Picard that he had nothing to fear from the Husnock. Now, if his body were flesh, then he could at least fear something. But he feared nothing, because he knew the Husnock were incapable of damaging his energy 'body.'

Look at the Organians, which were beings of pure thought. The Klingons staged an 'execution' of several Organians, but the Organians were not bothered. They weren't concerned that their fellows' bodies would be damaged by the Klingons' fire; they weren't concerned about the Klingons' hostilities at all.

Looks can be deceiving. The Holo Doc is the best example. He appears solid and feels solid, and yet he's completely energy-based.

 

[Timo]

Why would a being as powerful as the Douwd lower himself to using flesh for a covering?

Why would it lower itself to using a cheap light show? Flesh has style and substance.

Although when a species ascends to the levels discussed here, some degree of omniscience or at least healthy foresight and fast reactions are likely to be in its arsenal. Anything our mortal heroes tried, the superbeing could probably anticipate and defeat, no matter what its state of existence when our heroes launched their ill-fated attack...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Captain McBain]

Memory Alpha defines the Douwd as a 'being of pure energy.' No mention of a flesh covering.

Don't know why an energy covering is likened to a 'cheap light show.' That's hardly cheap. In fact, the fleshly body is looked upon as a bad thing (see Q's rant in "Deja Q").

Q appeared on the outside of the Enterprise in "True Q." His 'body' should have been affected, if it were flesh.

 

[Timo]

Memory Alpha defines the Douwd as a 'being of pure energy.'

Tricorders don't show it as one, though. (The VISOR apparently does, at least when Kevin gets sloppy. See LaForge anticipating where Kevin Uxbridge will move when the Douwd abandons the pretense and zooms into the bridge turbolift in a stream of special effects - LaForge turns his head well in advance of those visual effects!)

Even if the Douwd is fundamentally an energy being, this doesn't mean it couldn't or wouldn't manifest as a flesh puppet or a hologram or a mental illusion. Whether it does so in the episode is debatable. A hologram would have been spotted; a flesh puppet would not have looked suspicious in tricorders, and a mental illusion would have fooled our heroes perfectly as well. Of course, there are plenty of other options as well... But none of these was subjected to the test of blowing Kevin out of the airlock, so we can't tell.

With Q, of course, the question of whether he would be blown out or not does not depend on his ability to resist - but on whether he would find it more humorous to be blown out or to stay put.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Captain McBain]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I view energy beings as just that, and not some kind of energy-flesh hybrids.

The Douwd was extremely advanced. He could've fooled the tricorders (as I'm sure races have done from time-to-time in Star Trek).