Cardassian War and Tzenkathi War Fought Concurrently?
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The recent novel "Rough Beasts of Empire" features Sisko's encounter with Tzenkethi during the war.The Cardassian War has never really been explored in novels. "A Stitch in Time" makes some minor references to it.
There have been several onscreen references to past wars in that era, including with the Talarians and the Tholians. In DS9 "Tribunal", O'Brien categorizes "his" Cardassian conflict as part of the "border wars" - and every time one of these recent-past conflicts pops up in storytelling, it's an obscure one, only familiar to one or two of the heroes.
Apparently, the UFP was fighting on multiple fronts back then, and winning hands down so that there was no "war effort" that would have touched the general public...
Timo Saloniemi
Apparently, the UFP was fighting on multiple fronts back then, and winning hands down so that there was no "war effort" that would have touched the general public...
Timo Saloniemi
^ So the UFP was engaged in several smaller conflicts during that time, like the U.S. during the Reagan Administration - things like the Libya bombings, Grenada and Nicaragua?
If that's the case, then I can easy see both the Cardassain and Tzenkathi Wars being fought simultaneously, since neither would have come close to matching the scale of the Dominion War.
If that's the case, then I can easy see both the Cardassain and Tzenkathi Wars being fought simultaneously, since neither would have come close to matching the scale of the Dominion War.
dunno the name of the episode but werent they the ones that used a redressed marchant ship from stIII? they demanded the federation pull a colony off a planet or they will destroy it? I think picard picked a race that was asleep for a long time to mediate.
just cant remember the name of the episode
just cant remember the name of the episode
ah yeah could be the sheliak sorry about that
I was always amused by these pre TNG wars when TNG made it pretty clear that the galaxy had been in peace for a long time. It wasn't until the Phoenix started wrecking stuff that we are thrown this retcon about Cardassian Wars.
I'd probably also say the Klingon-Federation war of Season 4 comes off as a minor conflict considering it's resolved in 1 year and only really ignored from then on as if it didn't really happen.
That was more because the Dominion invasion of the Alpha Quadrant and the Dominion War had started, causing the Federation-Klingon War to be ended and the Khitomer Accords reinstated.
Plus, when you're fighting for your survival against what may seem an implacable foe, you don't tend to reference or think back to previous conflicts.
Umm, what?
Where in TNG was it suggested that there was a long peace? That was a TOS thing only. Say, from "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield":
You don't find similar bits from our TNG heroes. And even Kirk's little speech above can be taken as an outright lie, as its sole purpose was to get the two black-and-white idiots aboard his ship to start behaving.
Timo Saloniemi
Exactly. As early as Balance of Terror and Errand of Mercy, the UFP was gearing up for war with either the Romulans or Klingons.
As for TNG, it might be true that they lived in relative peace since the main threats to UFP security were gone (with the Romulans in isolation, the Klingons as either non-belligerents or full-blown allies and the Borg and Dominion still yet to be encountered). But that doesn't mean that that they didn't have small conflicts with other neighboring states. As early as The Ensigns of Command, we know the UFP was engaged in hostilities with neighbors, like the Sheliak.
As for TNG, it might be true that they lived in relative peace since the main threats to UFP security were gone (with the Romulans in isolation, the Klingons as either non-belligerents or full-blown allies and the Borg and Dominion still yet to be encountered). But that doesn't mean that that they didn't have small conflicts with other neighboring states. As early as The Ensigns of Command, we know the UFP was engaged in hostilities with neighbors, like the Sheliak.
For alleged peaceniks, the UFP has had plenty of conflicts in its history lol. I think that the Cardassian War was probably a minor conflict in grand terms. A good analogy may be that war with Cardassia was to the Federation as the Zulu War was to the British Empire, and WWI was to the British Empire as the Dominion War was to the Federation.
It could also be that no Federation war prior to that had involved a life and death struggle. The Cardassians could take a few systems, but not threaten the core of the Federation. I doubt many could, since the Federation must have a permanent fleet protecting Earth, Vulcan, etc. Romulan space is not far away, so it figures.
It could also be that no Federation war prior to that had involved a life and death struggle. The Cardassians could take a few systems, but not threaten the core of the Federation. I doubt many could, since the Federation must have a permanent fleet protecting Earth, Vulcan, etc. Romulan space is not far away, so it figures.
If "Best of Both Worlds" is any indication the Federation doesn't have a standing fleet protecting Earth, at least not during the early 2360s, or during the TOS movies either come to think of it. The defence of Earth is often shown to be a hodgepodge affair with Starfleet having to scramble to get ships to defend the capital
Where, in early TNG, do they talk about all these wars? The Cardassians didn't appear until season 4. Picard didn't think much of the War Games in Peak Performance either. If the Federation had all these violent conflicts pre-TNG it wouldn't make sense for Picard to look down on such a simulation. I could give more examples if you want. In fact I will.
Q sent the Enterprise to fight the Borg he didn't even mention the Tzenkathi or Cardassians. If the Federation had been involved in these wars then surely Q would've mentioned it. The Federation had been at peace for a long time. Any time of war recovery would've been mentioned in TNG Season 1 or 2.
TNG season 1 the main enemy was the Ferengi and they hadn't even made official contact with the Federation when the show started. The Cardassians and Tzenkathi didn't get name dropped in Encounter at Far Point. They didn't exist, obviously, but IF the original intention was for all these wars in the 2350s to have happen you bet that Zorn would've name dropped them.
Stop being an apologist to TPTB. Unless you honestly believe that Roddenberry's 24th century was one filled with war with multiple species. That wasn't Gene's intention and you know that.
It was a giant retcon. It worked, helped create DS9, but it was still a retcon.
ProtoAvatar
Fleet Captain
Who cares what was Gene's intention? As long as it was not materialised in established continuity, new writers were more than entitled to come with their own ideas.
A retcon, by definition, contradicts previously established facts - contradicting the previous writer's intention a retcon does not make.
The border wars do NOT contradict previously established facts. They're an expansion of the trekverse, not a retcon.
TNG introduced two conflicts the Federation took part in during the mid-24th century before they mentioned the Cardassian Wars, a conflict with the Tholians (s2) and the Galen Border Conflicts (early s4), so the idea of the Federation been in conflicts prior to TNG was there from early TNG.
Throw in the Sheliak conflict of the 23rd century they added as well. Not to mention conflicts around the Federation, such as the Klingons and Romulans fighting each other, the Norkan Campaign. Tasha Yar's backstory has a civil war on a Federation colony as a major event as well.
Or do these conflicts shape Picard wanting Starfleet to focus more heavily on diplomacy rather than sharpening their tomahawks?
I haven't seen "Q, Who?" for a while but wasn't Q's decision to send the Enterprise out to meet the Borg to show that there were still great unknown threats out there that the Federation wasn't ready for?
The Federation is quite big and unless the Enterprise is in these areas that saw warfare these border conflicts would probably seem quite distant and inconsequential to the rest of the Federation. Would people on the border of the Klingon Empire care or even talk about a war that happened or is happening 100s or 1,000s of light years from their planet?
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