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Captain Pike's weird comment about "women on the bridge"

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Have you ever seen the movie dramatisation with Kelsey Grammer of the development of the Abrams fighting vehicle? (M2A1)

They literally didn't care that they'd sent it out into production and combat without stopping the "egg cartoon effect" when even a high velocity bullet holed the carrier. Alot of service men had to be killed in a pretty nasty manner and a whole drawn out military tribunal before thet made the M2A2 with you know, any armour.

The original had gone over budget, so spending more originally just wasn't the plan, even though they knew it would costs dozens of lives.
 
Have you ever seen the movie dramatisation with Kelsey Grammer of the development of the Abrams fighting vehicle? (M2A1)

They literally didn't care that they'd sent it out into production and combat without stopping the "egg cartoon effect" when even a high velocity bullet holed the carrier. Alot of service men had to be killed in a pretty nasty manner and a whole drawn out military tribunal before thet made the M2A2 with you know, any armour.

The original had gone over budget, so spending more originally just wasn't the plan, even though they knew it would costs dozens of lives.

Hence my utter dislike of the military and my staying away as far as possible from these bozos.
 
Also, Bradley fighting vehicle, mixing those two up again.

But yeah, they F-22 went out without proper life support for the pilots. God knows what the F-35 will fail on if it ever goes out.

Hopefully the polarised and ablative armours of Trek represent them having perfected those ideas.
 
Also, Bradley fighting vehicle, mixing those two up again.

But yeah, they F-22 went out without proper life support for the pilots. God knows what the F-35 will fail on if it ever goes out.

Hopefully the polarised and ablative armours of Trek represent them having perfected those ideas.

What it means is: "We don't want to say forcefields, because this is supposed to be an earlier time, so we'll make something up based on things we've heard."
 
The whole idea of women not having an equal place in a "man's" world has long been stupid. Really.

There have been strong, independent and capable women as long as there has been a human race. Women have ruled countries (and continue to do so). Women have been involved in business for a long time--even though they might have been exceptions to the general rule they were proving a point. Many families throughout history were run by strong and capable women when there was no man about.

During WW1 and WW2 countless women stepped forward to more than adequately fill roles vacated by men sent off to war.

Societal change in the 1920s and through to WW2 had really opened Pandora's box. What we saw happen post WW2 was a society (run by men) trying to close that box again tight and push the state of things back to a pre-war order. It was all really stupid.

It's even more stupid that it's still going on in some respects.


As bizarre as it might seem to contemporary perspectives there were women back in the day who appeared to believe very much like many men--that women did not belong in certain places. They bought into the idea that a woman should properly aspire only to nuturing or subordinate type roles and pretty much all else was off limits. :rolleyes:
 
What it means is: "We don't want to say forcefields, because this is supposed to be an earlier time, so we'll make something up based on things we've heard."


Oh I know, hardening the metal wouldn't have much effect on the things they came up against anyway.

As bizarre as it might seem to contemporary perspectives there were women back in the day who appeared to believe very much like many men--that women did not belong in certain places. They bought into the idea that a woman should properly aspire only to nuturing or subordinate type roles and pretty much all else was off limits. :rolleyes:

Indeed, during the suffragette movement in the United Kindgom, some women's groups organised and launched their own propaganda campaign against it.
 
Unfortunately, that was true at one time. In order to be taken seriously in business or in a 'traditional male' role , a woman had to think like a man, act like a man and she couldn't be 'too pretty'. I remember one woman who was a beautiful blonde (she looked like Christie Brinkley) who happened to be a brain surgeon. No one would take her seriously so she dyed her hair. That still makes me mad when I think about it.
I have had a few women bosses who definitely overcompensated, and let me tell you, it's no thrill for the people working under them either, of either gender.
 
It was all really stupid.
It's even more stupid that it's still going on in some respects.

That's the whole thing. To you it's stupid, but to many people back then it didn't seem that way. And for every Gloria Steinem type there's a Phyillis Schlafly on the other end. There's never been a time where everyone universally agrees with the way things are done, then or now for that matter.
 
Nope, its not an insult. I use Black British for myself (born and bred Londoner!) and Afro-Caribbean for folks from my heritage not born in the UK.

Londoners represent! Ahem.

This is one of those things where American issues get conflated across the world. Racism is racism...well for the most part, the word gets used a lot sometimes. America has very specific things in its history..slavery on the mainland, being a young nation of mostly immigrant people, its history with Native Americans, difficulties between different groups of settlers, but most importantly the need for the civil rights movement in the mid twentieth century and the things like government enforced segregation and even having slavery in its laws until ridiculously recently. The UK has different problems, and that makes our perspective different (and us Londoners, especially us working class people) to what you get in America. Plymouth Rock didn't land on anyone here. A bunch of people did have to deal with some nasty stuff, for a long time, (will it ever end? I cannot describe my anger at finding out things I thought long gone were back after recent events.) The more globalisation conflates the two cultures though, the more things get dicey (look at poor old Benedict Cumberbatch recently) and you get weird things happen.
It's even more specific than that it turns out...us Londoners, particularly of a certain generation, (because I think sadly the world has gone backwards of late in that area, and because the Brexit and stuff that has followed shows that outside of London things are a bit different again...man, the anecdotes I could tell you.) make the federation look segregated in comparison. It's one of things that makes me consider the globalisation of culture a bad thing, because making assumptions gets people caught in all kinds of misunderstandings, and is working against everyone.

A fair chunk of my mates growing up are Afro Caribbean, couple of Africans, Chinese via HK...Irish...Indian (and that general region) ....but we were all Brits, all Londoners, and frankly didn't give a monkeys about all that beyond the odd amusement at differences that mainly existed between our parents and not us. The difference between us, and particularly the Afro Caribbean and the British, was fag paper thin. Like one or two family favourite dishes and where we go on our holidays thin ( and let's be honest, we all went to Spain if we were lucky, but more likely Southend etc.)

One of the things I like about Trek is it reminds me a bit of those days (we seem to have got more segregated and gentrified and ghettoised here in the last twenty or so years.) particularly with stuff like Bashir and O'Brien. Sisko really should have joined them in the bar more often.

It bothers me that there are deep discussions about who should be represented in Trek, and further outside, that we seem to have to get caught up in this identity struggles more than at any time....just as we thought we were moving out of such tribal nonsense.
Then I go and listen to some house, maybe some old school drum and bass, and text my oldest best mate, if he's not at a folk festival or a beer festival, and remember if people like us still exist, maybe I shouldn't give up hope just yet.

Just like Star Trek init.
 
That doesn't justify poisoning your people. In fact that's rather atrocious reasoning.
It is. But I can believe it. Mission > guys/gals* whom they can replace easily (as the brass understands "easily").




*Women approved for all combat roles by US SecDef in March. Doesn't mean they're there yet, just approved.
 
Do you think that Janeway overcompensates?
I guess we're slightly off topic here, beg the thread's forbearance... No I wouldn't say so. The series made a point of showing that she can be reckless with her own life, and some might interpret that as overcompensation, but Kirk was reckless with his own life, too. And she wasn't even remotely a martinet that I can remember. What do you think?
 
Oh I know, hardening the metal wouldn't have much effect on the things they came up against anyway.



Indeed, during the suffragette movement in the United Kindgom, some women's groups organised and launched their own propaganda campaign against it.
Humans have always voted against their own interests. Hence the 'blame the other poor guy, especially if he is a foreign poor guy' syndrome that exists in Western politics these days, rather than the blame those at the top who run the whole show that are keeping you down in the first place.
Divide and rule - still works.
 
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Londoners represent! Ahem.

This is one of those things where American issues get conflated across the world. Racism is racism...well for the most part, the word gets used a lot sometimes. America has very specific things in its history..slavery on the mainland, being a young nation of mostly immigrant people, its history with Native Americans, difficulties between different groups of settlers, but most importantly the need for the civil rights movement in the mid twentieth century and the things like government enforced segregation and even having slavery in its laws until ridiculously recently. The UK has different problems, and that makes our perspective different (and us Londoners, especially us working class people) to what you get in America. Plymouth Rock didn't land on anyone here. A bunch of people did have to deal with some nasty stuff, for a long time, (will it ever end? I cannot describe my anger at finding out things I thought long gone were back after recent events.) The more globalisation conflates the two cultures though, the more things get dicey (look at poor old Benedict Cumberbatch recently) and you get weird things happen.
It's even more specific than that it turns out...us Londoners, particularly of a certain generation, (because I think sadly the world has gone backwards of late in that area, and because the Brexit and stuff that has followed shows that outside of London things are a bit different again...man, the anecdotes I could tell you.) make the federation look segregated in comparison. It's one of things that makes me consider the globalisation of culture a bad thing, because making assumptions gets people caught in all kinds of misunderstandings, and is working against everyone.

A fair chunk of my mates growing up are Afro Caribbean, couple of Africans, Chinese via HK...Irish...Indian (and that general region) ....but we were all Brits, all Londoners, and frankly didn't give a monkeys about all that beyond the odd amusement at differences that mainly existed between our parents and not us. The difference between us, and particularly the Afro Caribbean and the British, was fag paper thin. Like one or two family favourite dishes and where we go on our holidays thin ( and let's be honest, we all went to Spain if we were lucky, but more likely Southend etc.)

One of the things I like about Trek is it reminds me a bit of those days (we seem to have got more segregated and gentrified and ghettoised here in the last twenty or so years.) particularly with stuff like Bashir and O'Brien. Sisko really should have joined them in the bar more often.

It bothers me that there are deep discussions about who should be represented in Trek, and further outside, that we seem to have to get caught up in this identity struggles more than at any time....just as we thought we were moving out of such tribal nonsense.
Then I go and listen to some house, maybe some old school drum and bass, and text my oldest best mate, if he's not at a folk festival or a beer festival, and remember if people like us still exist, maybe I shouldn't give up hope just yet.

Just like Star Trek init.

I tell my Black American friends , the main difference between the Black Caribbean experience and the Black American experience. (Generalistion) Your ancestors lived with their slave masters, ours lived overseas . So when slavery ended, we were in the majority, they (Black Americans) were not.
 
Humans have always voted against their own interests. Hence the 'blame the other poor guy, especially if he is a foreign poor guy' syndrome that exists in Western politics these days, rather than the blame those at the top who run the whole show that is keeping you down in the first place.
Divide and rule - still works.

They just about managed to perfect it now. Everyone is the accepted other somewhere along the line. 'White privilege' is essentially still a way of saying 'he's different to you, he's taking something from you' rather than 'we are the same, same capacity for evil, same capacity for great good...why don't we see what we can achieve together.' Humans. For a race so good at recording things, you would think we could learn a little better from our history.

Still, I am consistently reminded that we aren't all so...backwards. And that's half the fun in Trek...there's a future where people got past history and got on with achieving some amazing things together.
 
I tell my Black American friends , the main difference between the Black Caribbean experience and the Black American experience. (Generalistion) Your ancestors lived with their slave masters, ours lived overseas . So when slavery ended, we were in the majority, they (Black Americans) were not.

Combine that with the differing approaches when the two communities are mixed again, and that more recent history in the twentieth century, and things really get complex. America seems obsessed with racial identity and skin tone, over here we mostly get messed up by class and economics, until the real nasty buggers on either side of the coin turn up.

I miss the old days. Or maybe I just thought things were better then simply because I got lucky with my surroundings and we were basically children. But there's no real modern equivalent to The Real McCoy or Desmond's, or Goodness Gracious Me...hell, even Fresh Prince. There's no sense of shared cultural identity on TV where we laugh with each other at the same time as laughing at each other and at ourselves. I don't know when we stepped back from that more relaxed melange of just people and started putting the walls back up, or if I just got it wrong.
(For the record, I don't think it was some federation like utopia back then, one of the things that wound me up lately was seeing those NF logos again. The same ones the kids in school would carve in the desk before slapping me about a bit for my choice of friends. The same ones I hadn't seen on the walls for twenty years and stupidly thought that meant we had finally won.)
The world seems to have grown a lot more angry since then though.

We really do need Trek back on TV I think.
 
I don't miss the old day's, especially the 70's - the seven year old me standing at a bus stop being racially abused by adults out with their kids. In my part of London the NF London head quarters was two mnutes walk away. The Real McCoy was hilarious, it needs repeating on T.V like Desmonds and Fresh Prince.
We need Trek and Spitting image back on tv, someone needs to tak the piss outta the extreme politics we are heading to and show us that humans don't have to be assholes in the future.
 
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