Kirk Fu, never underestimate it.
Captain Archer: did he need to be the show's punching bag?
- Thread starter Devilpogostick
- Start date
I believe it was T'Pol who warned Capt. Archer, in a way, not to jump into things so quickly as it does seem to get him in trouble. On the other hand, since he was the 1st Captain of the 1st flagship for Starfleet he really believed that "first contact" was the best way to pave for the UFP in the future. He later agreed with Lt. Reed (and I think Admiral Ross) that all species were not so friendly and therefore they did need weapons to protect the Enterprise & crew. I think this is probably how, in reality, that we would have handled the exploration of space.
Your recollection is partially correct. Enterprise was always intended to house weapons; they just left drydock early (I wonder if it was a Tuesday
) to bring Klaang back to the Klingon homeworld, so they weren't installed yet. As for the notion of humans beginning the exploration of space absent weapons; I respectfully disagree. Once we actually start getting out there, it's a pretty safe bet our spacecraft will be heavily weaponized -- not to fight with aliens, but in order to better fight amongst ourselves.
Hi! No, I didn't mean to imply that we explore without weapons (they are a necessary evil) and we may actually run into someone out there-I've been keeping up with NASA's programs. Of course they'll have weapons but I would hope that they don't use them against one another. That could totally destroy the Space Program and ever making "First Contact". I would like to see them first build a ship like the Enterprise and put a bunch of international people on it but, even if they did, it probably wouldn't happen for at least another century.Your recollection is partially correct. Enterprise was always intended to house weapons; they just left drydock early (I wonder if it was a Tuesday
As for the notion of humans beginning the exploration of space absent weapons; I respectfully disagree. Once we actually start getting out there, it's a pretty safe bet our spacecraft will be heavily weaponized -- not to fight with aliens, but in order to better fight amongst ourselves.
Huh?
If Starfleet of the tiime had a flagship, it wouldn't be a ship that's intended to spend years alone out in the cosmos.
It would be one of the older starships based around Earth, in a position to manage the bulk of the fleet directly, and be in a position of command assuming any kind of fleet action was ever needed.
Or maybe their flagship was their fastest and most advanced ship in the fleet because it's just a symbolic title.
Bottom line: Flagship is whichever ship the writers want it to be.
Regarding the level of 'kick-assery' with Archer, I feel compelled to point out something.
"ARENA" - Kirk alone vs. Gorn captain.
"Starship Mine" - Picard alone vs. thieves.
"MACROCOSM" - Janeway alone vs. giant macroviruses.
Sisko NEVER needed an entire episode where he had to show he was a badass... he exuded that pretty much from the start.
Kirk, as we all know, can handle himself quite well in a fight. And did so QUITE often... but we have to remember WHEN the series was produced, and what it was pitched as to begin with... a space western in an era where westerns were really popular.
Yes, we knew Picard could fight, as he knocked down Kyril Finn and a couple Klingons when he was Worf's cha'Dich, to name a couple of examples. But he was largely seen as taking care of business on the bridge, not as a badass, per se.
Janeway... other than the sparse instances of using a phaser, she never did really get her hands dirty in that regard. She rather wielded the power of the ship and technology to take care of business. Not a badass, either, per se.
And Archer... he literally had to learn as he went. Before, he only had other humans as potential fight partners. He had to take the hits, for his crew and for humanity, in a way. Future captains got to learn from his errors in the punching bag category.
But Archer still was successful on occasion... it just seems few and far between. Being able to take a punch is just as important as being able to punch.
"ARENA" - Kirk alone vs. Gorn captain.
"Starship Mine" - Picard alone vs. thieves.
"MACROCOSM" - Janeway alone vs. giant macroviruses.
Sisko NEVER needed an entire episode where he had to show he was a badass... he exuded that pretty much from the start.
Kirk, as we all know, can handle himself quite well in a fight. And did so QUITE often... but we have to remember WHEN the series was produced, and what it was pitched as to begin with... a space western in an era where westerns were really popular.
Yes, we knew Picard could fight, as he knocked down Kyril Finn and a couple Klingons when he was Worf's cha'Dich, to name a couple of examples. But he was largely seen as taking care of business on the bridge, not as a badass, per se.
Janeway... other than the sparse instances of using a phaser, she never did really get her hands dirty in that regard. She rather wielded the power of the ship and technology to take care of business. Not a badass, either, per se.
And Archer... he literally had to learn as he went. Before, he only had other humans as potential fight partners. He had to take the hits, for his crew and for humanity, in a way. Future captains got to learn from his errors in the punching bag category.
But Archer still was successful on occasion... it just seems few and far between. Being able to take a punch is just as important as being able to punch.
