Captain America Takes on the "Tea Party"

[Bad Bishop]

It's simple. Latinos are hardcore Democrats, and hardcore Democrats are liberal and thus foolishly unsympathetic to the legitimate concerns of the Tea Party. Most Latinos just accept the lie that Republicans or conservatives are their enemies, and the Democratic Party shamelessly mines Latino fears about issues such as illegal immigration and bilingual education.

I'm curious, do you actually know any Latino people? I suspect not, because if you did you'd know that culturally they tend to be conservative and traditional, religious, and generally quite skeptical of government. And historically they are NOT a solid voting block for Democrats (just look at all the Hispanic Republicans in Florida).

You are correct on their conservatism and religious beliefs but clearly wrong on how reliably Democratic they are at the polls. The report by the Pew Hispanic Center, analyzing the 2008 election, finds that 57% of Hispanics identify or lean Democratic, while only 23% identify with Republicans. And the gap has widened since 2006.

Many have drifted to the Democrats in recent years because of a single issue: the right-wing hysteria over immigration. Which has been a serious tactical mistake by the GOP, because many Latinos otherwise would favor the overall philosophy of the Republican party.

Illegal immigration is either all "right-wing hysteria," or a real problem that costs California billions of dollars. It cannot be both. But it's true that Hispanics are more conservative on social issues. They voted 53% on Prop. 8, helping it to win.

 

[Mistral]

There wouldn't be an immigration issue if we'd just give them work visas and collect taxes from them. Instead, illegals use the schools and health care benefits without contributing financially. But the "hysteria" of groups like the Minute Men helps swell Democratic voter rolls with legal Hispanics, not some built-in liberal tendency in Latino culture. They really are conservative as a culture due to the massive % of Roman Catholic followers in the Latino nations-a religion notorious for its conservative stances. It isn't until you get a couple generations deep into Americanization that they begin to fit the general run of the political spectrum as individuals.

 

[Sci]

It's simple. Latinos are hardcore Democrats, and hardcore Democrats are liberal and thus foolishly unsympathetic to the legitimate concerns of the Tea Party. Most Latinos just accept the lie that Republicans or conservatives are their enemies, and the Democratic Party shamelessly mines Latino fears about issues such as illegal immigration and bilingual education.

I'm curious, do you actually know any Latino people? I suspect not, because if you did you'd know that culturally they tend to be conservative and traditional, religious, and generally quite skeptical of government. And historically they are NOT a solid voting block for Democrats (just look at all the Hispanic Republicans in Florida).

You are correct on their conservatism and religious beliefs but clearly wrong on how reliably Democratic they are at the polls. The report by the Pew Hispanic Center, analyzing the 2008 election, finds that 57% of Hispanics identify or lean Democratic, while only 23% identify with Republicans. And the gap has widened since 2006.

Which is completely consistent with what CaptJimboJones said: That a majority of Latinos would probably lean more towards the Republican Party under other circumstances, but that they have in recent years leaned towards the Democratic Party. One election cycle does not give you reliable information about a community's general political leanings.

There wouldn't be an immigration issue if we'd just give them work visas and collect taxes from them. Instead, illegals use the schools and health care benefits without contributing financially.

Pardon me, but are you seriously claiming that the vast amounts of underpaid labor performed for American businesses by illegal immigrants in this country constitutes "not contributing financially?"

 

[Nerys Myk]

I assume he means taxes

 

[Mistral]

I assume he means taxes

That's a big part of it. Social Security. Not paid by people with fake SS cards/numbers. State tax. Federal funding based on taxpayer population differentials. All income the state needs-that isn't collected. Meanwhile, various health care, educational and outreach programs funded by the state are costing money, causing a 2 way drain of revenues not coming in and extra cash going out. Plus, there's the strain on the general infrastructure-more frequent road repairs due to an excessive number of cars on the road. Extra pollution. Public transportation strains in part because of the extra population-many of whom utilize the Pub Trans daily, often getting a "legal" to buy them residential discount passes-the list goes on. I'm not going to debate this-at least, not with anyone who doesn't live here. Trust me-if you do live here you see it every day. Sure, the illegals work-its why they are here-but unless they are actively seeking citizenship the money they earn goes back "home" to relatives more often than not-and in surprisingly large quantities. Yet another "drain" as it isn't buying houses and other capital goods here in Cali. Does that answer your inquiry, Sci?

 

[TheBrew]

Illegals also don't collect Social Security, so it's not that big of a deal if they aren't paying for it.

 

[Mistral]

Illegals also don't collect Social Security, so it's not that big of a deal if they aren't paying for it.

Every job is indexed by the government. A job worked by an illegal represents uncollected taxes. I'm afraid the economic impact of illegals is a big deal-as you'd know if you lived in California, where it has a major impact, directly or indirectly on everybody here.

 

[TheBrew]

Illegals also don't collect Social Security, so it's not that big of a deal if they aren't paying for it.

Every job is indexed by the government. A job worked by an illegal represents uncollected taxes. I'm afraid the economic impact of illegals is a big deal-as you'd know if you lived in California, where it has a major impact, directly or indirectly on everybody here.

Hey, I'm from CA, so I know how much of a big impact they have and I don't disagree with a majority of your points. Just pointing out that they are not the absolute tax drain that you were making them out to be.

Just a large tax drain.

 

[Mistral]

Illegals also don't collect Social Security, so it's not that big of a deal if they aren't paying for it.

Every job is indexed by the government. A job worked by an illegal represents uncollected taxes. I'm afraid the economic impact of illegals is a big deal-as you'd know if you lived in California, where it has a major impact, directly or indirectly on everybody here.

Hey, I'm from CA, so I know how much of a big impact they have and I don't disagree with a majority of your points. Just pointing out that they are not the absolute tax drain that you were making them out to be.

Just a large tax drain.

Never said absolute-but a darn big part of the problem out here. Combined with the ridiculous attitudes in Sacramento(the Legislature, not the Governator) and California is no longer 'Paradise".

 

[Sci]

The State of California's biggest problem is its own spoiled populace. They want five million government services and they don't want higher taxes to pay for it, and they keep voting down tax hikes with referendums. They want the state government to give them everything under the Sun and pay for it with pixie dust and happy thoughts.

 

[Bad Bishop]

The State of California's biggest problem is its own spoiled populace. They want five million government services and they don't want higher taxes to pay for it, and they keep voting down tax hikes with referendums. They want the state government to give them everything under the Sun and pay for it with pixie dust and happy thoughts.

Wrong. Taxes are already among the highest in the nation, as is the tax and regulatory burden on businesses. The main problem is spending by the Democrat-dominated legislature.

Government payrolls are nearly impossible to cut because greedy public employee unions have too much influence. Taxpayers are also on the hook for the cozy retirements of public employees, who can retire early and then collect far more than they ever put in. It is a formula for financial disaster.

You can always depend on California's legislature to pass bone-headed initiatives that don't serve the state but do a great job of killing the economy. Cases in point--their stem-cell research program and global warming initiatives. The former has now been de-funded. The latter, an effort to curb greenhouse gas emissions, had already been criticized as a gigantic job-killer before recent disclosures about dishonest global warming research. The state could make some money from offshore drilling, but environmental wackos (who own the asses of every Democrat) will have no part of that.

So the situation is bleak. Let's see how much pain Californians are willing to endure before they make this a red state.

 

[Mistral]

The State of California's biggest problem is its own spoiled populace. They want five million government services and they don't want higher taxes to pay for it, and they keep voting down tax hikes with referendums. They want the state government to give them everything under the Sun and pay for it with pixie dust and happy thoughts.

Wrong. Taxes are already among the highest in the nation, as is the tax and regulatory burden on businesses. The main problem is spending by the Democrat-dominated legislature.

Government payrolls are nearly impossible to cut because greedy public employee unions have too much influence. Taxpayers are also on the hook for the cozy retirements of public employees, who can retire early and then collect far more than they ever put in. It is a formula for financial disaster.

You can always depend on California's legislature to pass bone-headed initiatives that don't serve the state but do a great job of killing the economy. Cases in point--their stem-cell research program and global warming initiatives. The former has now been de-funded. The latter, an effort to curb greenhouse gas emissions, had already been criticized as a gigantic job-killer before recent disclosures about dishonest global warming research. The state could make some money from offshore drilling, but environmental wackos (who own the asses of every Democrat) will have no part of that.

So the situation is bleak. Let's see how much pain Californians are willing to endure before they make this a red state.

I won't disagree regarding Sacramento-they are a pretty interesting collection of impractical people out there. Off-shore drilling? Um, have you ever been to Huntington Beach? Long Beach? Seal Beach? I think those big, man-made objects out there in the water are, lemmesee, yeah, drilling platforms. My M-in-Law is a Conoco VP-and she says that expanding the drilling ops in SoCal would destroy wildlife on a large scale. C-P works to minimize impact with their activities. And they still pull a profit. There isn't enough oil out there to solve Cali's woes. We'd do better to legalize and tax the hell out of pot-there's more $ to be made that way. Oh, wait, as a conservative that's not a practical solution because "everybody" knows pot is a demon drug, right?

Environmental whackos? Hmm, that's an interesting term. Caring for the environment is very important. Here's why. Humanity exists in such numbers that the impact on the planet is immense. My wife and kids(&me) create a 15 gallon trashbag of trash every 2-3 days. If every household does that in SoCal alone we are, collectively, creating an estimated 3 million bags every few days or the equivalent. And it goes where? And that's just garbage from the home. Not industrial and commercial trash. Not pollution. Not people stomping around nature preserves and parks, littering as they go. Just the garbage from the kitchen.
Or let's look at fish. How many are consumed each day? How long does it take to grow one to "usable" size? How many have to be growing at any given time to sustain the supply? These questions are often addressed by those "whackos" -and good questions they are, as a non-sustainable fish population means less food for us all. Ditto the decimation of open land used to graze cows in huge numbers-which results in clear cutting forests for more grass land, reducing carbon conversion. All of this happens on a VAST scale across California and the planet because there are so many of us. If those "whackos" didn't keep harping about it human nature would assert itself in the general populace and we'd just quit trying. Those "whackos" help give us a collective kick in the butt and keep us thinking about our planet and what's needed to keep it healthy. I don't know that they have ANY Democrats "in their pocket", but any help they get is probably a good thing, overall. I know you won't agree, Bishop, so might I suggest you go swimming in a lead-contaminated river under acid rains while breathing in carcinogenic air and tell me how you feel about ecology afterwards?

ed.- here's one, tiny example of Humanity impacting the planet in California

http://www.ocregister.com/news/pool-235805-school-city.html

 

[TheBrew]

The State of California's biggest problem is its own spoiled populace. They want five million government services and they don't want higher taxes to pay for it, and they keep voting down tax hikes with referendums. They want the state government to give them everything under the Sun and pay for it with pixie dust and happy thoughts.

Wrong. Taxes are already among the highest in the nation, as is the tax and regulatory burden on businesses. The main problem is spending by the Democrat-dominated legislature.

Government payrolls are nearly impossible to cut because greedy public employee unions have too much influence. Taxpayers are also on the hook for the cozy retirements of public employees, who can retire early and then collect far more than they ever put in. It is a formula for financial disaster.

You can always depend on California's legislature to pass bone-headed initiatives that don't serve the state but do a great job of killing the economy. Cases in point--their stem-cell research program and global warming initiatives. The former has now been de-funded. The latter, an effort to curb greenhouse gas emissions, had already been criticized as a gigantic job-killer before recent disclosures about dishonest global warming research. The state could make some money from offshore drilling, but environmental wackos (who own the asses of every Democrat) will have no part of that.

So the situation is bleak. Let's see how much pain Californians are willing to endure before they make this a red state.

You really have no idea what is going on CA, do you? Since budgets and taxes require separate 2/3 vote from the legislature, Republicans are just as complicit in the current problems as democrats.

 

[Bad Bishop]

What else has environmentalism brought to California? You didn't mention the forced drought (via federal restrictions on water delivery) in the San Joaquin Valley. It has put 40,000 people out of work in order to save the delta smelt, a tiny little inconsequential fish. Productive farm land has gone dry as a result, and higher food prices will follow. Just what Californians (and the nation) need!

To environmentalists, the economic suffering of farming communities is of zero consequence.

You really have no idea what is going on CA, do you? Since budgets and taxes require separate 2/3 vote from the legislature, Republicans are just as complicit in the current problems as democrats.

Don't make me laugh. California Republicans in the state legislature may as well be Iowa Democrats.

 

[Dusty Ayres]

The issue is that the United States is broke. Get that through your thick liberal skull.

And why is it broke? Because of tax cuts given to large corporations, the wealthy, financial firms, and a bloated military budget, all started by your lords and masters Reagan, Bush, and Bush II.Why can't America go back to the Moon? Same reason. Why is Obama starting a New Deal II (the stimulus package?) For all of the reasons mentioned above. Obama's 'socialism' had NOTHING to do with it. Get that through your thick racist neoconservative skull.

Better yet, turn off Faux Noise and Corporate News Network and start to read about things other than whatever neoconservative claptrap you spew.

And the real issue is that you are a brainwashed racist neocon stooge.

 

[Mistral]

Bishop, it amuses me to see the uninformed bellowing from the soapbox. The "forced drought" you speak of? Let's talk about Ca and water. First, despite the fantasies of many Americans, the SoCal region is a desert, not a green Paradise. The water is, and has been, piped in almost since the Spanish settlers' time. Yet we act as though there is water enough for everyone and their pet golf courses. Then, just to make things interesting, Congress had a thing going back in the first half of the Twen Cen called the Colorado River Project. It was a plan to divert excess flow from the Colorado to Southern California, therebye relieving the strain of shipping Central and Northern California water south. It would have worked except for a chap named Carl Hayden, who used bribery, chicanery, influence and threats to get the Project built-for Arizona. Now they name high schools for the guy in Az. Arizona, in case you weren't aware(and based on many of your statements its questionable) is also a desert. They have a booming population, just like California. They have an excessive amount of green golf courses, watered lawns and swimming pools-just like California. Where the difference comes in is the Valley of the Sun in Arizona also has an adequate water supply despite having a miniscule local water table. It wasn't environmentalists that forced a drought in California-it was politicians. And it was a situation anybody with a fourth grade education could see coming a mile off. After all, SoCal is a natural desert. To quote Sam Kinnison, "Do you know what this is? It's sand! Do you know what it's going to be in a thousand years? It's going to be sand! Nothing grows here! Nothing's ever gonna grow here!" Yet people still flock here to SoCal, and when they arrive they expect beautiful vistas and finely-grown lawns. So the already taxed water supply is further reduced. I don't think you can blame that fundamentally wrong-headed situation on a smelt. But keep trying-it amuses me to see how much of what is fails to get through your thick skull.

 

[Bad Bishop]

Bishop, it amuses me to see the uninformed bellowing from the soapbox. The "forced drought" you speak of? Let's talk about Ca and water.

No, let's not talk about Southern California's perennial water problem or the usual shortages around the state. You're changing the subject. I specifically brought up the farmer's plight much further north in the central farmlands, i.e. a forced cutoff of federally-supplied water. This particular tragedy was the work of environmentalists. It has forced tens of thousands of people out of work in a state that already had higher unemployment than the national average. You ignored this subject and went off on an entirely separate one.

 

[Top41]

And the real issue is that you are a brainwashed racist neocon stooge.

This isn't TNZ, and this doesn't fly here. Warning for flaming.

This topic really has mutated to the point where it's not a GTV&M topic anymore. It belongs in Misc or TNZ. If you want to continue this debate, take it to open of those places. But the party's over here.

CLOSED.