Captain America... Spoilers

[Mr Light]

The Borders I go to has a tall four sided column filled with comic books. It's in the magazine section and not with the trades. ... As for Marvel's mistakes, it's worth pointing they consistently and considerably out-sell DC. I tend to prefer DC myself but in the past year I've been getting into Marvel books again.

 

[the Dagman]

... As for Marvel's mistakes, it's worth pointing they consistently and considerably out-sell DC.

So? And American Idol is the number 1 tv show in the country as well. I still don't like and refuse to watch that shit. Just because something outsells another product doesn't make that first product better than everything else. What Marvel really has working in their favor is that they aren't part of a larger mega-corporation that is focused on making the bulk of their money from their other ventures.

 

[Nick Ryder]

I mean, yeah the stories are rather deep and they engross you, but I'm so tired of them doing all these drastic "status quo changing" storylines at least once or twice a year! I mean c'mon... we just had the status quo changed with Civil War, then it was changed again during Secret Invasion and then it was changed AGAIN with Dark Reign. Like for God's sake... just let the MU live with the status quo for a little while!

I have to admit, I'm happy that Cap's return took 2 years and not 2 months! At least it gave us some new stories with a new Cap and an MU that sort of was forced to realize just how much they needed and respected Cap.

 

[Mr Light]

^^ You forgot Avengers Disassembled, House of M, and World War Hulk

 

[Welshie]

What i always wondered is why do "modern" writers seem incapable of creating new, equally popular characters?

Spiderman, Cap America, Iron Man, Hulk, Thor etc.. all created in the Stan Lee era.

I don't think we have heroes created in our time (90s and 00s) that equal their popularity and pop culture importance.

Why is that? Are we not giving them a proper chance to become as established? Are they not iconic enough? Or are they just not that interesting to begin with..

Because for the most part, the idea of some guy in tights running around fighting Space Nazis got old. At the moment, there's a resurgence in popularity due to the genre being pretty much tailor-made to turn into action movies (a long time fave of American moviegoers), but when that well runs dry, men-in-tights stories will fade into obscurity.

There are plenty of interesting and well-written comic book characters out there created in the past 15 or 20 years, it's just that the style and stories being told have changed... check out stuff like Sandman or various other Vertigo books for in-depth engaging characterization (and some damn good stories). Indie books and European comics (which managed to avoid most of the superhero genre) are also well worth a look.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Aren't they tired of killing off and then resurrecting characters again and again? Sounds boring.

 

[Captain Craig]

Cap is definitely iconic; people know the look and have a concept of what "Captain America" is, though this is actually somewhat problematic when selling the character/film (particularly outside the US), since perceptions of Cap are heavily linked to how you perceive America. The general public's image of Cap is a guy obnoxiously chanting "U-S-A!" and waving a "Four More Years of Bush" sign.

This is not only unfair but untrue. Your first part is right. Cap is seen as a figure who unapologetically chants "U-S-A!". He does so REGARDELESS of who the POTUS is, REGARDLESS.

You only demonstrate YOUR bias with your second untrue statement.
Captain America is apolitical.

 

[Mr Light]

If Cap is apolitical why did he rebel against the government in Civil War? And didn't he also defect to Canada in the 80s or something like that, and that's when USAgent became Cap briefly?

 

[Captain Craig]

He's rarely taken political stances. When he does its for one story. When he has its been a rebellion against a government idea, not one politician. His character is about being American, being a good soldier for those values.
He no more chants Go Bush than he would chant Go Nixon, Go Ford, Go Carter....ad nauseum.
He is Captain America.

 

[Trent Roman]

This is not only unfair but untrue. Your first part is right. Cap is seen as a figure who unapologetically chants "U-S-A!". He does so REGARDELESS of who the POTUS is, REGARDLESS.

You only demonstrate YOUR bias with your second untrue statement.
Captain America is apolitical.

CaptainCanada wasn't addressing the 'truth' of the character, but his public perception, particularly outside the U.S. He's a character who dresses in the American flag, after all, and such overt 'patriotism' has become associated with a particularly virulent strain of American politics and the attitudes such an allegiance entails. The nuances of the character actually on the page are something altogether different.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Captain Craig]

This is not only unfair but untrue. Your first part is right. Cap is seen as a figure who unapologetically chants "U-S-A!". He does so REGARDELESS of who the POTUS is, REGARDLESS.

You only demonstrate YOUR bias with your second untrue statement.
Captain America is apolitical.

CaptainCanada wasn't addressing the 'truth' of the character, but his public perception, particularly outside the U.S. He's a character who dresses in the American flag, after all, and such overt 'patriotism' has become associated with a particularly virulent strain of American politics and the attitudes such an allegiance entails. The nuances of the character actually on the page are something altogether different.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

Well by 2011 the masses outside our borders wouldn't care at all cause Obama will still be in office. CaptainCanada was making a personal statement, if he wasn't his point as you see it is moot and wouldn't have been worth mentioning. But he mentioned it so...

 

[CaptainCanada]

Well by 2011 the masses outside our borders wouldn't care at all cause Obama will still be in office.

No, not really. The sort of muscular patriotism that Captain America is associated with is nowadays associated more or less exclusively with conservatism (whereas it was not in the more jingoistic period of his birth; you can see remnants of that earlier liberal tradition remaining in the works of writers like Aaron Sorkin). Certainly, Obama's election will make things easier for a Captain America movie abroad than they would have been under W., but it will never be separated from its jingoistic origin.

As to politics, he's always been depicted as a Roosevelt Democrat in the 1930s; they've strenuously avoided associating him with political parties since then (not wanting to diminish his attempted universal appeal), though based on the leanings he's shown in his private life he'd be a strong social liberal (pro-civil rights for blacks in the 1960s, pro-gay in the 1980s) and a Wilsonian internationalist.

Incidentally, one of my favourite posts on superhero political stances.

 

[Nick Ryder]

And Cap is about not just the country but the ideals of the country. Freedom. That's who he is at his core. That's why Civil War caused him to rebel simply because it was taking away freedoms. Period. It wasn't about simply making sure there's a listing of who the "good guys" are, it was about putting heroes at risk or under the control of the government, which is something that Cap has NEVER liked. I think New Avengers sort of summed up his feelings on the matter, he liked doing what he has to do not because he was ordered to, he does it because its right to act.

- And no I didn't forget Disassembled, House of M, WWH, basically making a point that in the past TWO FRAGGIN' YEARS, we've had 3 major status quo changes. I mean, that's pretty damn crazy. We go from Civil War to WWH (which sorta spun out of the CW so I count everything from Civil War up to Secret Invasion as one story, then Secret Invasion as another, and now Dark Reign as another. - Disassembled and House of M were sorta tied together, so I count those as one too)

But really, we had less than a year of the new status quo when things were changed up all over again.

 

[coolghoul]

Incidentally, one of my favourite posts on superhero political stances.

I kinda disagreed with Green Lantern, even tho' I haven't read too much of him.

But I just *loved* the writeup on Hulk. He's the man!!

 

[Captain Craig]

Well by 2011 the masses outside our borders wouldn't care at all cause Obama will still be in office.

No, not really. The sort of muscular patriotism that Captain America is associated with is nowadays associated more or less exclusively with conservatism.

I can only say that viewing him thru that prism is unfair to those democrats, blue dog or otherwise, that have your "muscular patriotism". You or others have placed an unjust box around this "perception of Cap".

Cap is about Freedom and Justice and while he may be cloaked in the colors of America those concepts are more than simply American. If people can't see past his Americanism and into who the core of the character is, regardless of who is in office, then thats a sad commentary on them.