• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Capitalisation of I

I tend to capitalize Human whenever I'm in a sci-fi discussion about various alien races (if Klingon and Wookie can be capitalized, why can't Human?).
 
It does seem strange. German, which capitalises every second word basically, doesn't capitalise personal pronouns, unless you you are directly talking to another person.

For example if I'm writing a (somewhat formal) letter (in e-mails or text messages between friends it doesn't matter), it would be something like:
"Good day, i am writing to You regarding Your proposal blabla..."

It does look a little egocentric, the way the English language handles that, even if the hstoric explanation has nothing to do with anything like that.

Dutch also has a formal (U) and informal (je/jij) version for you...
And dot my i's and j's for pretty much the same reason as J.Allen.

Too be honest, i hardly ever write like this anymore, mostly its a mix of this and block letters/print letters, like the ones you now see on your computerscreen or in the newspaper...
ScanImage003.jpg
 
Last edited:
Dutch also has a formal (U) and informal (je/jij) version for you...
And dot my i's and j's for pretty much the same reason as J.Allen.

No, I think that's not what I meant.

When you're writing a letter, or address anybody specifically in a written form, you're supposed to capitalise the pronoun even if it's a friendly letter between close acquaintances - "Du" just like "Sie".

It's just that those conventions aren't taken very seriously anymore in informal letters (e-mail specifically, or online message boards).
 
Dutch also has a formal (U) and informal (je/jij) version for you...
And dot my i's and j's for pretty much the same reason as J.Allen.

No, I think that's not what I meant.

When you're writing a letter, or address anybody specifically in a written form, you're supposed to capitalise the pronoun even if it's a friendly letter between close acquaintances - "Du" just like "Sie".

It's just that those conventions aren't taken very seriously anymore in informal letters (e-mail specifically, or online message boards).

Oh right, been a while since i had to write or read in German...
Never could get my head around the rules for when to use ß or ss in a word...
 
That's got to do with pronounciation (fairly straight forward since the last spelling reform, before that it was more random), but it's really subtle, and the Swiss don't use the ß at all as far as I know.
 
OK, that's going to be a long one as I'll try to answer several questions asked in the previous posts:

The ß / ss in German follows a comperatively simple rule nowadays:
ß is written after a long vowel. Example: Straße
ss is written after a short vowel or vowel-combi. Example: Fluss
The old rule was more complicated:
ß if pronounced really sharp and always when a consonant follows. Examples: naß, häßlich.
ss if pronounced softer and when a vowel follows. Examples: Nuss, Flüsse. (exception: when a long vowel goes before the ß it stays: Straße, Muße)

===========

Capitalisation in German is really simple: the first word of a sentence and all names are written with a capital. Nouns are considered names and hence are invariably capitalized.

A formal address is always capitalized in a letter (You, Your). That's for reasons of politeness. For the same reason we do not capitalize the first person (I / me/ mine/ we /us / our)

===========

Arab has indeed no capitals. Nor have most of the other oriental fonts.

===========

According to a German article I found online, the capital I in English has a second reason beside the one already mentioned:
at the same time the ic turned into i, an i in the beginning of a word would also occasionally be used to indicate a past participle: what today is 'run', used to be 'irunne' back then. The font used was very narrow (parchment was expensive and you had to save space - paper was not yet known in the western world). This could lead to misunderstandings if the i (I) was getting close to a verb. So they decided to first write the i (I) larger and then to capitalize it.

=========
French doesn't capitalise its formal you (vous). We're rude, never forget that !
Shaytan, are the Parisians really as rude as rumour has it? I'm starting to learn French in preparation for a trip to Paris and I'd like to know what I am facing.
Can you give me a few insider tips how to treat Parisians correctly to receive only a minimum of rudeness? I'm the type of tourist who asks before taking photos, who attempts to be very polite and not to stand in the way of people who are in a hurry. I switch off my cell in hospitals, public transport, museums, theatres and churches and never hear loud music or make phone calls in public.
What other dos and don'ts are there?
 
Last edited:
Shaytan, are the Parisians really as rude as rumour has it? I'm starting to learn French in preparation for a trip to Paris and I'd like to know what I am facing.
Can you give me a few insider tips how to treat Parisians correctly to receive only a minimum of rudeness? I'm the type of tourist who asks before taking photos, who attempts to be very polite and not to stand in the way of people who are in a hurry. I switch off my cell in hospitals, public transport, museums, theatres and churches and never hear loud music or make phone calls in public.
What other dos and don'ts are there?

That was a joke, we're not that rude, not always ;)
Try to speak a little French, even only the polite words (s'il vous plait, merci, bonjour, aurevoir). It's always welcome.

Waiters are not rude, talking to waiters is a play, you just need to know the codes.

But I think that with your common sense, you will be fine :)
 
That's got to do with pronounciation (fairly straight forward since the last spelling reform, before that it was more random), but it's really subtle, and the Swiss don't use the ß at all as far as I know.

Yeah, that always trips me up when I read a Swiss paper online because in my head I pronounce the words accordingly and every vocal in front of ss is short.
 
The ß / ss in German follows a comperatively simple rule nowadays:
ß is written after a long vowel. Example: Straße
ss is written after a short vowel or vowel-combi. Example: Fluss
The old rule was more complicated:
ß if pronounced really sharp and always when a consonant follows. Examples: naß, häßlich.
ss if pronounced softer and when a vowel follows. Examples: Nuss, Flüsse. (exception: when a long vowel goes before the ß it stays: Straße, Muße)

How new is this rule? In my German class in high school, we used ss and ß interchangeably, but mostly ss because most of the kids didn't know how to access other characters on their computers (same in French class, print it out and write the accents on in pen). In retrospect I have some doubts about the competence of that particular teacher. She's pretty much driven the program into the ground the last 15 years.
 
^^
Haha, that "rule" you were taught was never correct.

Large changes in the spelling conventions of the german language happened around 2000 (couple years earlier with a transition period), with some additional changes in the following years.
 
How new is this rule?
It's from the reform of the spelling reform. I am not 100% sure about the year but I believe it must have been around 2004.
I much prefer and still use the old spelling. For official papers I am to use the reformed spelling which is why I am fluent in both.

Merci bien, Shaytan, à l'aide rapide et détaillé :)
(LOL naah, I am not that good yet. Am still at lesson #1 in my book. I just have a good instinct for the structure of a language so that I can realize where the translation software screws up and correct it accordingly.)
 
Actually, a lot of nouns and other words are capitalized in the US Constitution that we don't normally capitalize today. I don't know what the style is called, for that.
I just call it archaic, and it's typical of the writing of the day. I kind of get a kick out of it and occasionally do it myself.

I wonder, does anybody dots i's and j's when they write or print? I can't remember ever actually doing that, except maybe in early grade school.

I have always dotted my i's and j's. To be honest I don't think I've seen someone not do it. The dots are so integral to those letters!
 
Yeah, my last German class was about 20 years ago and as i said, i really havent read or written a lot of German since then...
 
Actually, a lot of nouns and other words are capitalized in the US Constitution that we don't normally capitalize today. I don't know what the style is called, for that.
I just call it archaic, and it's typical of the writing of the day. I kind of get a kick out of it and occasionally do it myself.

I wonder, does anybody dots i's and j's when they write or print? I can't remember ever actually doing that, except maybe in early grade school.

I have always dotted my i's and j's. To be honest I don't think I've seen someone not do it. The dots are so integral to those letters!

Turkish actually has a dotted i and an undotted ı. The dotted İ is even dotted when capitalized.
 
Actually, a lot of nouns and other words are capitalized in the US Constitution that we don't normally capitalize today. I don't know what the style is called, for that.
I just call it archaic, and it's typical of the writing of the day. I kind of get a kick out of it and occasionally do it myself.

I wonder, does anybody dots i's and j's when they write or print? I can't remember ever actually doing that, except maybe in early grade school.

I have always dotted my i's and j's. To be honest I don't think I've seen someone not do it. The dots are so integral to those letters!

Indeed. I have never seen them without the dot.
 
I just call it archaic, and it's typical of the writing of the day. I kind of get a kick out of it and occasionally do it myself.

I wonder, does anybody dots i's and j's when they write or print? I can't remember ever actually doing that, except maybe in early grade school.

I have always dotted my i's and j's. To be honest I don't think I've seen someone not do it. The dots are so integral to those letters!

Turkish actually has a dotted i and an undotted ı. The dotted İ is even dotted when capitalized.

Now that's cool. I would love to have capitalized I's with dots.
 
My experience with people who don't dot their i's and j's is from when they write in cursive, when of course the pen generally stays down for the whole word, except to go back and dot i's and j's, cross t's and x's, or anything else I've forgotten to mention. I've seen people just skip all or part of that last step.

Why? I don't know. Maybe they're sloppy, in a rush, getting into the groove of letting their thoughts out, thinking it's perfectly legible without the extra effort, etc.
 
I never write in cursive, actually. The dots just seem pointless to me (no pun intended :D). It's not that they slow me down when writing-- I'm not usually in a hurry. I just never even think about them. I'm surprised that a lot of people use them.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top