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Can't pray in school?

Well, if they weren't upset enough to do anything about it, it's kind of a moot point.

Totally wrong. That's like saying the bully does no damage because the weakling refuses to fight back.

I disagree with your comparison. A bully hurts a weakling on purpose, because he knows he can.

A group of people meeting together for worship are not doing it to hurt anybody.

And frankly, if a weakling doesn't fight back, or tell a authority figure about it the bully, or avoid the bully, then I honestly don't think he has grounds to complain.
 
Well, if they weren't upset enough to do anything about it, it's kind of a moot point.

Totally wrong. That's like saying the bully does no damage because the weakling refuses to fight back.

I disagree with your comparison. A bully hurts a weakling on purpose, because he knows he can.

A group of people meeting together for worship are not doing it to hurt anybody.

And frankly, if a weakling doesn't fight back, or tell a authority figure about it the bully, or avoid the bully, then I honestly don't think he has grounds to complain.

Do you complain everytime anything upsets you? Most of the time, and I'm just speaking for myself here, I accept what is and move on. There simply isn't time to complain about everything.

Okay, you don't like the bully example. How about the girl who rejects the boy and destroys his confidence. She wasn't trying to hurt him, she was just looking after her own interests. Yet he was hurt by this.

To whom should he complain?
 
Stipulating that any time you do something out in public it might upset (as in offend) somebody...so what? Nothing guarantees anybody the right to not be offended.

One time a woman I worked with came back from shopping at a flea market all upset because a man had taken out a prayer rug and prayed as his beliefs dictated he should. She thought such a display was offensive. I asked her why a devout man displaying his religion was more offensive than the large crucifix that she displayed at all times as a devout Christian and she couldn't (or wouldn't) answer. To her mind, *her* religion was the only one that should be displayed.

Jan
 
Totally wrong. That's like saying the bully does no damage because the weakling refuses to fight back.

I disagree with your comparison. A bully hurts a weakling on purpose, because he knows he can.

A group of people meeting together for worship are not doing it to hurt anybody.

And frankly, if a weakling doesn't fight back, or tell a authority figure about it the bully, or avoid the bully, then I honestly don't think he has grounds to complain.

Do you complain everytime anything upsets you? Most of the time, and I'm just speaking for myself here, I accept what is and move on. There simply isn't time to complain about everything.

Okay, you don't like the bully example. How about the girl who rejects the boy and destroys his confidence. She wasn't trying to hurt him, she was just looking after her own interests. Yet he was hurt by this.

To whom should he complain?
I'm really not sure I know what you're getting at.

You have a group of religious people meeting in public. Who are they hurting? How are they hurting those people?

If we're just talking about some random guy being annoyed that those people are there, then who gives a shit? I don't complain about every little thing that upsets me, but if it upsets me enough I will say something.
 
I disagree with your comparison. A bully hurts a weakling on purpose, because he knows he can.

A group of people meeting together for worship are not doing it to hurt anybody.

And frankly, if a weakling doesn't fight back, or tell a authority figure about it the bully, or avoid the bully, then I honestly don't think he has grounds to complain.

Do you complain everytime anything upsets you? Most of the time, and I'm just speaking for myself here, I accept what is and move on. There simply isn't time to complain about everything.

Okay, you don't like the bully example. How about the girl who rejects the boy and destroys his confidence. She wasn't trying to hurt him, she was just looking after her own interests. Yet he was hurt by this.

To whom should he complain?
I'm really not sure I know what you're getting at.

You have a group of religious people meeting in public. Who are they hurting? How are they hurting those people?

If we're just talking about some random guy being annoyed that those people are there, then who gives a shit? I don't complain about every little thing that upsets me, but if it upsets me enough I will say something.

That always reminds me of when someone starts a Men's Only gym and women protest it and sue, but when someone starts a Women's only gym, guys don't care.
 
I'm religous, and I wouldn't have cared for it, as a lot of prayers are just a few lines repeated...

The year I went to a Christian school, that wasn't my experience...a lot of time was given over to prayer requests, which meant you learned a lesson about compassion for your fellow students, as well as having the opportunity to pray for their requests and share your own.

Some teachers led the prayers--other teachers invited students to do so. It was anything but a bland, rote experience.
 
Stipulating that any time you do something out in public it might upset (as in offend) somebody...so what? Nothing guarantees anybody the right to not be offended.

Any PERSON may wear their religion on their sleeve in public. They have that right and nobody else is has any legal protection against being offended by it. However, the GOVERNMENT has no such right - nor any person acting on behalf of the government.

When the government takes sides in religion, that goes WAY beyond offending someone who disagrees. Free religious practice and belief is a right given to individuals. That is only possible so long as the government keeps its nose out of the issue. If the government is allowed to take sides, the side the government lines up on has a huge advantage and individual liberty is lost.
 
But the government is made up of people, not robots or computers. How exactly would you guarantee such a thing
 
Religious schools in America have better academics and college preparation than public schools, much lower drop out rate too.
http://www.publicschoolreview.com/articles/5

I think you'll find that that applies to private schools in general, not just the religious ones. Implying that it's the religious aspect that makes the difference rather than the education level and economic status of the parent(s), amount of free time available to spend studying with their children (instead of often being single parents, having longer hours, or a second job), prospects for paying for college, class size and resources, quality and experience of teaching staff, and other factors is false.

The vast majority of lower income families whose children attend public schools are also religious, more-so than higher income families with a longer track record of higher education in fact. It's not the religion that makes the difference, it's the increased opportunities available to the students of private schools over public schools.

The religious extremists want organized prayer in public schools ...
And the non-extremist, religious mainstream wants it too. Imagine that.

I have no problem with kids taking a moment to pray to themselves privately in class. I have no problem with forming a Christian (or any other religion) or Bible-study club on campus during lunch or after school, or just gathering informally. I have no problem with kids wearing crosses, t-shirts, or more formal religious garb (of any religion) so long as it doesn't endanger the children or put down other groups (no "Follow my God or you'll burn in Hell" type stuff). I have no problem with school-sanctioned displays celebrating the secular aspects of holidays or even student-made religious displays so long as all religions or lack thereof of the students are allowed to be represented or discussed. I have no problem with classes about religious history and its influence on modern society.

What I do have a problem with however, is authority figures from the teaching staff or administration setting aside a block of time during school for prayer. Their job is to educate students in subjects that would be useful to people of all cultural or religious backgrounds, not force them to take part in or sit through a period of prayer that excludes many students with different or no religious beliefs.

If "mainstream" religious people are in favor of that, they can qualify for homeschooling their kids or pay for private religious school. Otherwise they need to go back to school themselves and study up on the history of separation of church and state in the US, since they seems to have forgotten about it with their insistence on forcing prayer or teaching Creationism in public school. I somehow doubt the same people who are so in favor of forcing their religion upon others in school would feel the same way if it was Muslim prayer being forced on American students.
 
But the government is made up of people, not robots or computers. How exactly would you guarantee such a thing

By force of law. This country (USA) was founded in accordance with the principles layed out in the Constitution. Those principles are legally binding until they are legally amended.

Good luck trying to get 2/3 of each house of congress and 3/4 of the states to repeal the First Amendment - fortunately.
 
a little pray will not kill you! maybe it make you a better person! there bigger things than the us govermemt! like the being that made us! god said thou shell not any god but me! the us goverment ! GOD is number 1! not the us contures;)
 
a little pray will not kill you! maybe it make you a better person! there bigger things than the us govermemt! like the being that made us! god said thou shell not any god but me! the us goverment ! GOD is number 1! not the us contures;)

All assuming that Yahweh is the one true God, which most of us do not assume.
 
a little pray will not kill you! maybe it make you a better person! there bigger things than the us govermemt! like the being that made us! god said thou shell not any god but me! the us goverment ! GOD is number 1! not the us contures;)

 
Odd that the nations whose schools outperform those of the US are invariably less religious...
Religious schools in America have better academics and college preparation than public schools, much lower drop out rate too.
http://www.publicschoolreview.com/articles/5
As others have noted, secular private schools have the same results. It's a factor of being a private school, not a religious school. Are you going to admit that, or are you going to repeat your lie at the next opportunity?

T'Girl said:
The religious extremists want organized prayer in public schools ...
And the non-extremist, religious mainstream wants it too. Imagine that.
Non-extremist, religious mainstream does not want that, if they value the law of the land. If you want it, means you are a religious extremist and you just don't know it.
 
a little pray will not kill you! maybe it make you a better person! there bigger things than the us govermemt! like the being that made us! god said thou shell not any god but me! the us goverment ! GOD is number 1! not the us contures;)

All assuming that Yahweh is the one true God, which most of us do not assume.

Sources and data to verify your claim, please. And this board is not a representative population sample, so please do not attempt that. If you're trying to claim that those of the three Abrahamic religions are not a significant part of the population (over half at least in the US), more if you count world population, that dog ain't gonna hunt.
 
Odd that the nations whose schools outperform those of the US are invariably less religious...
Religious schools in America have better academics and college preparation than public schools, much lower drop out rate too.
http://www.publicschoolreview.com/articles/5

So do non-religious private schools.

This is because private schools can kick out students who perform poorly. This idea that they provide a better education because of prayer is hilarious.
 
a little pray will not kill you! maybe it make you a better person! there bigger things than the us govermemt! like the being that made us! god said thou shell not any god but me! the us goverment ! GOD is number 1! not the us contures;)

All assuming that Yahweh is the one true God, which most of us do not assume.

Sources and data to verify your claim, please. And this board is not a representative population sample, so please do not attempt that. If you're trying to claim that those of the three Abrahamic religions are not a significant part of the population (over half at least in the US), more if you count world population, that dog ain't gonna hunt.

The Christian majority status (about 75%) is irrelevant. Individual rights like religious liberty are not subject to majority rule.
 
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